Rules Thread III

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DowntimeAssumption 1: I buy gear or start training a skill today, out of game. These items or training will take 4 days to complete.

Assumption 2: Later today I begin a run that competes later today Question 1: In-game, if the run takes more than 4 days to complete, does my character gain access to the delayed gear/skill on the 4th day of the run? Question 2: If the gear/skill is gained, is it lost again after the session completes until the appropriate out-of-game time has passed? Question 3: If we ignore Assumption 1 and I had nothing ordered, but in-game I order it on day 1 to help complete a run objective then get it on game-day 5, when the game completes, is that gear temporarily out of play until sufficient OOG-time passes?

Sorry about these questions, but I found myself in the Q1 circumstance last night and I wasn't sure how to handle it. I didn't ask and just assumed I didn't have the ordered stuff, which was a safe and easy way to go about it and seems like a good way to rule. However Q3 throws a bit of a wrench into that assumption.
1: Gm discretion. They can go either way, it is their call.

2: No. 3: Also no.

Note that all training (and other karma expenditures, as well as nuyen expenditures above certain thresholds) must be noted on a GM's AAR for recordkeeping purposes, but that is seperate from any of your questions.
Rules Thread III
MagicElement grenade, Shadow Spells, Page 17. I want to know how an alchemical preparation of this spell would work. The spell itself is a touch-range spell, but the spell explicitly states that it has two components - the initial touch-ranged one to create the orb, and an inbuilt mechanic from the casting that launches the ball away from you with a spellcasting+(Tradition atr.) roll to determine if it scatters, much like a real grenade, so that the mage doesn't have to throw it. By explicit statement this is a function of the spell - making a preparation of the spell should also allow me to launch it, I would believe, but I wanted to make sure before picking up the spell on an alchemist, since it's a very strange case.Per Ryouichi - The grenade launches itself.Rules Thread III
ArmorNartaki questions:

How does having 4 arms affect clothing and armor? (i.e. price and/or availability changes, are delivery times still solely based on price, does it cost twice as much to buy arm armor to gain the same benefit, or can you buy arm armor twice and get twice the benefit? -- do arm armor rulings here also apply to leg armor rulings for centaurs)

Are there any issues with them dual wielding two two-handed weapons? I could see accurately aiming two longarms with no smartlink being an issue, but two two-handed melee weapons could be easier.
How does having 4 arms affect clothing and armor?

In short it doesn't. There is nothing in the raw that states Nartaki suffer the same issues that Trolls do when it comes to lifestyle/armor/weapon cost increases as they are still human sized, I suppose cutting an extra set of holes in something isn't that big of a deal. Armor affects them the same way it does everyone else through the magic of rules team so no need to buy extra PPP kits or forearm guards. Are there any issues with them dual wielding two two-handed weapons? I could see accurately aiming two longarms with no smartlink being an issue, but two two-handed melee weapons could be easier. I would first advise you to read the quality Shiva Arms as it explains it pretty cut and dry. Every Nartaki has a dominant hand just like two arm creatures. If you wanted to get ambidexterity you need to purchase it 3 times as per RAW. In addition due to the nature of how multiple attacks per round work it doesn't matter. You could have 12 arms with a gun in each one and you will still need to split your dicepool. 5E doesn't support multiple attacks very well and with good reason, since combat is so fast paced already. Generally a street sam with an ares alpha is just as capable (if not more so) in splitting his dicepool for multiple attacks as a Nartaki with an ingram smartgun in each hand. CRB pg 196 It should also be noted that in addition to it costing a free action to do a multiple attack.

The total number of attacks you can make in a single Action Phase is limited to one-half the attacker’s Combat Skill.
Rules Thread III
CombatRG 119.

Aimed Burst. The attack loses the –2 penalty to the defender but gains +1 DV. It costs the firer three rounds of ammunition. Brain Blaster. The attack gains +2 DV and costs the firer six rounds of ammunition. Does this mean that the defence penalty afforded by firing 6 shots in full auto (a -5 penalty) still applies? If this penalty was removed, should it not be stated in the action, as for Aimed Burst?

Mechanically, Aimed Burst comes out 0.66 DV behind a complex burst, and Brain Blaster either comes out 0.66 ahead (with defence penalty) or 1.0 behind (without the defence penalty) compared to complex full auto.
Brain Blaster also loses the defense penalty, as is strongly implied in the text, for good game design, and as follows from the previous two similar actions, Double Tap and Aimed Burst.Rules Thread III
RiggingThe Remote Cyberhand drone (R5, 130) just came up in the Discord chat. It's stats (only listed in the back tables) are all n/a, apart from sensor which is -, though it does have an availability and cost. How should this be handled?Treat it as a 1 in all drone attributes for the time being. This subject is open to being revisited at a later date, particularly if anyone hunts up some freelance intent.Rules Thread III
MagicJust to crystalise the results of the discussion I started last night:

Are you mechanically able to have a spirit use the Innate Spell to sustain a spell on you indefinately? If one is possible, how does the service cost work out?

Are there any other factors a runner should be aware of?
You may use the Innate Spell to have a spirit sustain a spell on you for the duration of a session (or until the spirit dissapates). This is subject to being revisited. Note that the spirit will take the sustaining penalties, and spirits can't use psyche.

It is a single service to cast a single spell and sustain it.

Spirit index is relevant. This entire ruling is subject to being revisited at a later date.
Rules Thread III
Magicif you have a punch mage does the unarmed skill test fully replace the spellcasting test or do you need to make an unarmed test followed by a spellcasting test?Any time a touch-range spell is cast, you must first make an unarmed touch attack, taking the normal +2 bonus for touch-only, and winning on ties. This is resisted by a normal melee defense test. You cannot apply any other effects with this - no using shock gloves, or poison, or slap patches, or w/e. This test is only for casting the spell.

Assuming you make contact, you may cast your spell. Direct spells resolve normally. Indirect combat spells resolve uncontested, unless the defender has spell defense dice, magic resistance, or similar, which would apply against your spellcasting+magic roll at this point.

You then resolve damage or other effects and take drain as usual for the spell.
Rules Thread III
HMHVVMy question/rule change its to an infected. The 4 base line infected as you know are vampires banshees gnawers and ghouls are all the established ones. Vampires and banshees look much like the base line allowing them to blend in easier. Ghouls are a corner stone of shadowrun at this point, and many recognize ghouls as people tho in some places are still not liked or frowned upon if not some worse things are done due to fear. and gnawers can also sometimes pass as ghouls. That is not taking in to account for spells that can obscure them also.

I wish to petition for the revaluation of sukuyans from hard targets page 126. i will outline a few points and give a description of them taken from the book. sukuyan-When HMHVV Strain 1 was introduced to the Caribbean, there were unexpected variations to vampiric transformation—mutations that manifested in nearly fifty percent of indigenous human population who were infected. Called the Sukuyan vampiric traits, these mutations seem to be linked to genetic markers peculiar to the indigenous Taino people. Sukuyan vampires grow pronounced canines, but their skin does not become as markedly pale; the color of their eyes changes to lighter tones—brown becoming orange, for example. Tests have shown Sukuyan vampires can drink alcohol without nausea and swim without dificulty. The person would have to be from this region or have that blood type to be allowed to use them, i will not deny that it would have to be a stipulation. 2.Much like a vampire it is easily able to stay hidden in public if the necessary precautions are taken. 3.They can add a new dynamic to vampires, for one they not only need blood but salt in their diets. They are also able to drink alcohol and juice allowing them to better bland in among runners. Such as drinking a glass offered by the johnson,

These are just some benefits of them and i would not be shocked it others could not find more. I would bring up bandersnatch but we do not have a large sasquatch community. Thank you for your time on this matter
With the permission of rules team (granted by /u/Nitsuj83, for the record,) I'll actually be fielding this one.

Revisiting variant strains of HMHVV will require a council decision, and all strains will have to be reviewed and individual decisions rendered. This will be brought before the council for review, and a decision will be rendered after deliberation. However, in this particular instance, I will speak as the head of the character review division, and provide you with an explanation of why playing a Sukuyan may not necessarily be the most viable course of action. There are multiple reasons that the Sukuyan strain of HMHVV would not be seen as a viable alternative to Vampire, and will be listed below. 1) It removes Induced Dormancy (Lack of Air), as well as the modifiers to Swim tests. This, in turn, means that you could, in theory, live completely underwater and never see the surface. 2) Vulnerability (Wood), and fluff notes regarding "intense psychological stress and discomfort around spiritual objects," while indeed keeping them closer to the traditional depiction of a vampire from myth (see: Bram Stoker's "Dracula,") in truth make them, in terms of the setting, much more of a forcedly unique, almost Mary Sue-esque character. The reasoning behind this is that if your character is already a Vampire per the HMHVV strain, they already have all of the strengths and weaknesses associated with being a vampire. Mechanically, the benefits of being a Sukuyan (swimming bonuses, lack of Induced Dormancy from lack of air) are far more powerful than the associated maluses that come with it (Vulnerability to Wood, Dietary Requirement of Salt.) There is, functionally, no reason that your character would need to be a "double-Vampire" for any reason whatsoever.

As for the lore, allow me to state my piece on the matter, and members of Rules or Lore may correct me if they see fit. Being a metahuman with an HMHVV strain already carries with it a massive social stigma. You are one of the Infected. And a lot of normal, everyday people, and even your fellow runners, will hate you for it. Being a particularly special and rare strain of Infected, restricted to a specific location/bloodline/genotype/however you choose to interpret only specific people from the Caribbean becoming Sukuyans, adds an extra layer of rarity to the already uncommon HMHVV-Infected state. In addition to that, let us also take into account that Sukuyans are clearly sought out by corporations for research and testing, per HT. They are ALSO sought out by human traffickers for "easily controllable Awakened beasts" due to their susceptibility to Awakened drugs and toxins from Awakened para-critters. As such, a Sukuyan would have the following issues in the Seattle of 2077 presented by ShadowNET: They are likely to be the only one of their kind in Seattle. They will be actively sought out and hunted by organized crime syndicates, corporations, and anti-Infected activists - possibly even targeted for a black-bag op or with a bounty placed on their head. The stigma of being some "weird" kind of Infected that the people of Seattle are not used to will cause contact development and location of work to become even more difficult than average. (Which, despite the way ShadowNET works, is actually pretty hard!) The "new dynamic" that they would add to vampires can be easily dealt with with the simple addition of a salt shaker to their Lifestyle. Or they could live off of Bloody Maries with extra blood. And as punny and, admittedly, kind of interesting as that could be, it just doesn't justify adding them as a concrete variant to Vampires. Being easily able to stay hidden in public if the necessary precautions are taken is something that most runners have to deal with. Being SINless at any point throughout your life makes that a necessity. Being a runner makes it fairly important too. As a result, sticking to the shadows isn't necessarily something that is an issue in this case. Staying hidden keeps everyone alive, SURGEd, mundane, chromed, Awakened, and Infected alike.

I hope this information has answered your request in a definitive and clear manner.
Rules Thread III
MagicFor spells like destroy(weapon) how many boxes do guns have?Assume any device without a clear means to determine it's physical boxes has 8 boxes of physical damage and is immune to stun damage (though electric damage would deal physical against anything a GM deemed sufficiently electronic.)Rules Thread III
ArmorWhat is the damage for the Shock Frills armor mod (core, 438)? Searching the shadowrun reddit shows that yes, Catalyst did another Catalyst, and most people seem to say damage equal to shock hand, but since it's another missing rule, I'd say it's a rules team decision.We will operate on the assumption that it is damage equal to shock gloves - 8S(e) AP-5.Rules Thread III
RiggingWhen using drones slaved to an RCC running the Swarm Program and Clearsight, and I use a function of their sensor suite for perception, is the dice pool increased to:

Clearsight + Pilot + (Swarm -1) [Sensor+ (Swarm-1)]?

Additionally, what determines when Electronic Warfare is used vs Perception when attempting to perceive things with a drone operator?
To the first part, correct. To the second, it is the discretion of the roller when using a sensor array (and only an array). Otherwise, it is perception.Rules Thread III
GearQuestion came up a few days ago, so just dropping it here.

Essentially, can micro cameras be slotted into the capacity of wearable imaging devices, such as contacts, glasses, goggles, etc, or is that capacity strictly for vision enhancements only?

Alternatively, since they're electronic imaging devices, could software just be used to record what the device is seeing, rather than requiring a dedicated camera to be built in, much like just recording what a monitor is displaying in reality.
Visual capacity is typically distinct from any other form of capacity, however, any device capable of taking any vision enhancement is also capable of recording flat video.Rules Thread III
ArmorSo, curious if other sets of armour that could be considered full body armour, such as Urban Explorer with a helmet, could be modified with chemseal, into their capacity, or is the ruling in the rules answers document (#20) going to be upheld.Any set of armor that comes with a helmet can be made chemseal, but you must pay the cost in capacity in the body of the armor, and must be wearing the helmet. Full body armor can make use of the capacity-free chemseal, at the cost of drastically raising the availability. Since Full Body Armor is not subject to upgrade rules as such, this makes it "milspec" according to our player rules, and typically requires a run in order to acquire.Rules Thread III
AugmentationAs mentioned in the rules chat, would like some solid clarifications on what concealability modifiers can fit in the various smuggling compartments, as following:

Smuggling compartment Skin pocket Large smuggling compartment And, for completeness' sake: Cyber holster Cyberarm Slide

Additionally, I'd like to ask what the effect on concealability you think making a weapon capable of being broken down would apply, for purposes of being squeezed into a smuggling compartment, if any.
A smuggling compartment can hold concealability -1 or lower. If broken down, it can hold concealability 0 or lower.

A skin pocket functions as above. A large smuggling compartment can store concealability +1 or lower. If broken down, it can store concealability +2 or lower. A cyberarm slide can store a taser, a hold-out pistol, or a light pistol. It can store nothing else. A cyber holster can store items with a concealibility of 0 or lower.

Concealability as a kludge for storage space is not additive in any sense, but if you're storing an item that caps out your concealability, you likely do not have much more space. Don't be a dumbshit.
Rules Thread III

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