Rules Thread IV

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TopicQuestionAnswerThread
MagicNotable AnnouncementAny entity with the Magician quality or Mystic Adept quality (notably player characters who possess either, and ally spirits, though not normal spirits) may erase any residual astral signature within [MAGIC] meters of themselves, assuming they are astrally perceiving and subject to the rules on Page 312 of the Core Rulebook, Second Printing.Rules Thread IV
WeaponsCrossbows lack any detailing about what modslots they have. This is important due to their low accuracy and undefined potential for a smargun system.

Smartguns can be retrofitted internally to firearms. They can be retrofitted externally to top or underbarrel mounts.

Can a Crossbow mount a smartgun? No, like a Traditional bow, or Yes, like a Compound bow.
Crossbows can mount an internal smartgun systemRules Thread IV
AugmentationDoes Reduced Sense: Smell have any interaction with Tailored Pheromones at all? I don't think it would, and if it did it would basically be a positive quality in that regard. However, some people argue that it would reduce the effects of the pheromones since you can't smell them as well.Reduced Sense: Smell has no interaction with Tailored Pheromones.Rules Thread IV
GMPDoes Karma gained from GMP count towards Career Karma, and does it give street cred?Yes and YesRules Thread IV
MagicCan we legalize the following spells for PC use? There's no good reason for them being NPC only other than Catalyst being dumbs:

Hose (Bloody Business) Tsunami (Bloody Business)

These are both just water versions of the flamethrower spell group, there's no real reason for them to be npc only.
Unfortunately there's no good way to do this in our setting. I want to avoid small houserules like this, as there's no good way to keep a record of them, so I will not be doing such at this time. Sorry.Rules Thread IV
AugmentationI'm curious if we could upgrade the customised attributes on a cyberlimb when we move between grades (IE: Alpha->Beta), or is this a case where the customisation can only be chosen at limb purchase, and cannot be altered without completely replacing the limb, at full cost.Customization can be upgraded per the upgrade rules, though doing it while upgrading grades makes the math weird and not really in your favor.Rules Thread IV
ToxinIs it possible to apply poison to a blade and then reholster it? (Also still haven't found the page for the toxin applying thing, all I remember is that it was a simple action)I see no problem with this. It would be bad for the sword, but we don't track a lot of things runners do that are stupid bad for their weapons, and it isn't going to make knives and swords broken or anything. I am willing to call poisoning a blade a ready item action.Rules Thread IV
VampireIs creating Renfield (seen in Hard Targets 127/128) legal for player character vampires?Renfield is not legal for player use, per the Hard Targets approval post. If for some reason it's not banned in the above, I'll be filing an emergency ruling.Rules Thread IV
MagicWhen you get a free power from a mentor spirit that you already have, does that free up the pp or do you get a second rank in it?(say you have combat sense, or improved ability, would you get a second rank, or stay at 1 rank but have the pp to allocate to either the same ability or another one)The points are refunded, though obviously this only applies to acquisition of mentor spirits post-gen.Rules Thread IV
AugmentationI'm curious if a nephritic screen (pg 113, CF) can reduce the duration of a drug below zero? Like, for example, if I have an R6 nephritic screen, and I take kamikaze, will I have d6*10 minutes, -60 minutes, to a minimum of 10 minutes, similar to how some drugs like psyche interact with people with high body ratings, or would the duration of the kamikaze be below or equal to zero, and as such, have essentially no effect aside from immediate crash?The Nephritic Screen cannot reduce the duration of a drug below one unit of duration, which typically means 10 minutes for short-duration drugs and 1 hour for long-duration drugs, but can vary.Rules Thread IV
MagicNotable AnnouncementAny entity who has cast a spell through any means may erase their own residual signatures, assuming they are within 1 (one) meter of it's location. This does not require any qualities, nor does it require astral perception in any way. One can be assumed to be aware of their own, and only their own, signatures, as long as they can recall and locate their casting location. This uses the same actions and is otherwise subject to the rules on Page 312 of the Core Rulebook, Second Printing.Rules Thread IV
MagicOI! Voro, looking forward to you answering this.

Pg. 310 of Core States: Any sense enhancement provided by cyberware or bioware can be provided by this power, unless that enhancement either gives you bonus dice to Perception Tests or needs wireless to work (or both).

Would an Adept who takes Improved Sense (Olfactory) be able to smell things that no regular person would be able to smell, as per the cyberware Olfactory Booster, but without the bonus dice?
Adepts may take the Improved Sense power with selection (Olfactory), making scent a "discrete" sense in the same way as an Olfactory Booster does. It does not include the ability to filter out scents, any bonus dice, or any of the nifty stuff a vomeronasal organ does, but does allow you the same degree of precision a cyber-shnozz with similar dice would.Rules Thread IV
WeaponsPosting this as a record from the discord chat, question was:

'Which is, what average attributes are used for the purposes of wielding heavy weapons, such as MMG's & HMG's?

Like, would it be full body average, or the average of legs/torso/arms, since it doesn't really involve the skull, or, just the arms because shadowrun cyberlimb physics, or, you know, whatever.'
For the purposes of wielding heavy weapons, only the arms are utilized, as previously stated in discord (after this was posted, I believe.)Rules Thread IV
EdgeIf a player makes a roll with say, 7 dice and gets a glitch (4 1's, 2 hits) and either Pushes the Limit or Second Chances, does the result stay a glitch? It seems to me as though it must, as else they would be using two edge points: The first to Close Call and negate the Glitch implicitly, and the second to roll more dice.Neither using Push the Limit nor Second Chance will alter whether or not a roll is a glitch. If it's a glitch, the extra dice will not make it not-a glitch. If it's not a glitch, it won't become one, even if all the extra dice roll as 1s.

Using edge to negate a glitch is still a thing, of course, but it is seperate, and you can only edge a roll or action once.

EDIT: Somehow missed Nitsuj answering, sorry for the double-up.
Rules Thread IV
AugmentationVoro asked for this to be threaded a while back but apparently it was forgotten so I'm picking up the slack.

Can the Radar Sensor from CF pg. 81 be installed in sensors (arrays)?

ETA: Just for the sanity check because sensor functions don't normally carry a cost. Does is carry the same cost as when installed as ware?
No cyberware inside of gear.Rules Thread IV
MagicNotable AnnouncementNo more than one point of edge can be spent on any specific test or action at one time. The previous has always been in effect, being directly ripped from the core rulebook, but shall be interpreted to err on the harsher side, notably precluding spending edge on both a spellcasting (or alchemy, or summoning, or binding) roll and on the drain resistance roll, as they both arise from the same action.Rules Thread IV
MagicWhat roll (if any) does an adept need to make to detect things with the Magic Sense power?Magic+Magic is the roll used for the Magic Sense adept power by the adept. It is at the GM's discretion how the rolling is handled. I suggest no more than one roll per scene.Rules Thread IV
MagicHow does the Maintain Warmth adept power interact with the "Cold Blooded" metagenic negative quality?The Maintain Warmth adept power does not interact with the Cold Blooded metagenic negative quality in any way.Rules Thread IV
CombatIs the Example "Shooting Into Melee" from SR5 190 in effect?As per the Rules Head it is encouraged to use this rule for a glitch or even a crit glitch but not as a standard rule.Rules Thread IV
AugmentationA discussion on Discord turned up this inconsistency:

Muscle Toner: "This bioware is incompatible with augmentations that increase Agility, including the muscle replacements cyberware" Muscle Augmentation: "This bioware is incompatible with augmentations that increase Strength, including the muscle replacements cyberware." Muscle replacements though... have a different wording. "It cannot be combined with other augmentations to the muscles, including muscle augmentation or muscle toner bioware" Which causes conflict with the Suprathyroid Gland one way, but not the other way. With the intent seeming to be that you can't get +2 from one source and +2 from another source to avoid the high Availability of say Muscle Toner 4, the question is: Is the Suprathyroid Gland incompatible with Muscle Augmentation and Muscle Toner bioware?

credit to Rinnolk
A Suprathyroid Gland will stack with Muscle Replacement, but not with Muscle Toner or Muscle Augmentation.Rules Thread IV
MagicDo sustained or quickened spells follow the usual rules for perceiving magic? At what range does this perception happen? How much information does the perception give (i.e., can they pinpoint the source?) While I'm mostly asking because Black Magic walks around with quickened spells, I'm also curious for the implications for things like Stealth and Invisibility.Sustained and Quickened Spells are not perceptible to entities on the meat only except where their effects are obvious. An astrally percieving entity can spot the aura of the spell about it's sustainer and it's locus, if any.Rules Thread IV
RiggingTwo questions!

Question 1: Can drones use or benefit from Small Unit Tactics? Do they each roll individually(with whatever skills they may have or defaults) or does the rigger roll once for all of them?

Question 2: Can drones use small unit tactics softs of some kind, to assist in teamwork stuff like this?
Drones cannot benefit from Small Unit Tactics, nor may they assist in any way with them (aside from as additional firepower to back a squad making use of SUT)Rules Thread IV
MagicThis was posted in Rules (and got a "no") but I wanted to make a record of it, because, uh, important: Can I actually use analyze device on a foci and thereby increase the efficacy of the foci? I.e. use analyze device on a rating 1 power foci, get 5 hits, now it functions as a rating 6 power foci? Because this was suggested to me and seems insaneYou can use Analyze Device on the Device portion of the foci. I.E. If you have a gun thats a power foci then analyze device will let you shoot better, however it has no effect on the foci portion of it.Rules Thread IV
MagicChrome Flesh says Snuff gives +1 Reaction and Pain Resistance 1. This is silly because Pain Resistance is an adept power. Only really relevant when it comes to overdose rules though. Hence, my question is, are we treating Pain Resistance 1 (from Snuff) and High Pain Tolerance 3 (from Kami) as overlapping effects for the purposes of dying from overdose.So that was a typo as confirmed by several freelancers. It is in fact supposed to be High Pain Tolerance 1 and does trigger OD rules from things like Kami.Rules Thread IV
MatrixQuestion regarding the Signature quality for a hacker character. Say that you hack a host during the legwork part of the run and you leave behind your little signature thingy... are you required to leave another one later on during the actual run (physical or AR)?

ETA: Hardware skill and the cyberdeck spec.

In an effort to cheese the life out of the hardware skill would a cyberdeck spec apply to the matrix action Jack Out? Or is it limited to doing actual, physical work on a cyberdeck?
It should be left at the pinnacle of the job, not during legwork. But mechanical effect applies no matter where it's left and no matter how often.

That's the direct quote from Grand Master Rules Head himself. Its fine if you use the matrix to disseminate your signature but it shouldn't be done during legwork, but always at the apex of the job.

To your second question yes you are allowed to benefit from the spec.
Rules Thread IV
RiggingCouple of rigger questions(again):

If a weapon is in the weapon mount of a drone or vehicle, and the drone or vehicle is destroyed, can the weapon be recovered from the weapon mount?

What weapon mounts does the Ares Duelist have? Rigger 5.0 currently lists light mounts, which are vehicile mounts. The closest drone mount approximation is the Standard mount.
If a drone or vehicle with a mounted weapon is destroyed, the weapon can be recovered, but only if the chassis is capable of being worked on. Weapons in mounts must be removed, as per the modification rules, in order to be retrieved. Catastrophic damage (explosives, fireballs, rocks falling) are completely capable of nullifying the previous at GM discretion. EDIT: Forgot the second half. An Ares Duelist has Standard (drone) mounts instead of Light (vehicle) mounts.Rules Thread IV
MagicAre active detection spells (like Detect Life, Extended) noticed by people in the area the way other spells are, i.e., at Spellcasting - 6 perception threshold? Or are they only noticed by those near the caster? Do they leave an astral signature in the whole area? Do they penetrate walls? Edit: Nevermind, I realized that the spell endows the target with a sense, and the area is the area covered by that sense, and therefore not actually part of the spell itself.Your edit is correct. Sustained spells, including active detection spells, are not detectable by numinous perception.Rules Thread IV
MagicRegarding the test to check if a spirit goes free on Page 202 of SG, does a spirit become uncontrolled when they run out of services?A spirit becomes uncontrolled upon running out of services, either due to expenditure or Banishing. It can then roll it's Edge (which is it's Force divided by 2) against a threshold 3 test. Unbound spirits take a -4 penalty, and spirits with memorable or frequent experiences with metahumanity (GM discretion - assume no) get a +2 bonus.Rules Thread IV
ToxinIs there a Toxin Vector hierarchy? For example Injection > Ingestion > Inhalation > Contact ?

Do items which provide immunity one vector provide immunity to a toxin that has multiple vectors?

Do toxins with multiple vectors attack on all vectors when used or just the most applicable vector to the attack method?
Injecting a toxin will apply injection or contact vectors. Inhalation and Ingestion have no overlap whatsoever, and an Injection vector will have no effect if merely in contact. A gas mask will provide no protection against Inhalation/Contact vectors, unless something is preventing the toxin from contacting the skin. In essence, a toxin always works against the least-protected applicable route.Rules Thread IV
AugmenationCyberfoot stats are only taken into account when an action is done with just the foot as per Voro, but do Cyberfeet affect movement rate?Cyberfoott agility does not affect movement rate, though you are strongly encouraged to at least customize your foot's agility. Otherwise it's a bit like your foot's always asleep, which would be awkward.Rules Thread IV
AugmentationWhat happens when someone shoots at a Smart Firing Platform (Core Rulebook pg 433)? I'm assuming it doesn't get a dodge roll, because that would be silly. But does it have some threshold to hit because it's a small target? And how much damage can it take? I didn't see anything saying the smart firing platform is banned (unless there's a banned equipment list I couldn't find), but there don't seem to be clear rules on how this mod is handled in game.The Smart Firing Platform should be treated as the Mitsuhama Gun Turret on Page 133 of Rigger 5, except it lacks armor and comes with the autosofts mentioned in it's description. This means it cannot dodge, it soaks attacks with 2 body, no armor, and it has 7 boxes. It gains normal defensive bonuses from cover, if placed appropriately, and may be subject to minor defensive modifiers for size at GM discretion (suggest a threshold 2 to strike instead of threshold 1 when mounted with an SMG or smaller weapon)Rules Thread IV

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