Rules Thread VI

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MagicZNK asked: Banishing Ally Spirit; What do?

Building off of ZnK's questions: Banishing Resistance (SG 194), so for an Ally Spirit, what is the amount of services it actually owes the conjurer? Infinite? The amount of services recorded at summoning and binding? Because, since there is no backdraw to just retrying the summon and bind, it would be rather silly to just keep doing it until one has a particularly high services recorded, edge that, and then basically be safer from banishing than another ally spirit. Ally Spirit Attributes (SG 201), particularly the edge part saying it "starts" with an Edge equal to that of its conjurer. Sooo, how would you go about improving said Edge? We have the "you edge for spirits" rule anyway, but Banishing Resistance adds Edge to an unknown amount of services (so 1 being answered helps answer 2), so it would be good to know what kind of karma it would take to increase this thing's edge, and if it would indeed cost more karma, not to hold off on the binding and instead just pump getting high Edge before actually binding the Ally. I would also like to ask if we could clarify whether or not ShapeShifters(tm) are able to pick up Geneware. I should probably do my homework better, but I think the last call on this was that Geneware doesn't work with shifters? The Shift Power only talks about all-internal Deltaware implants which are allowed, which is fair enough I suppose - but if the "No on Geneware" thing I remember (apologies if I remember wrong) is an actual ruling, then I was hoping we could review that, because to me geneware seems different to bio or cyberware implants. I.E.: Dafuq why do shifters cost more, are worse than metahumans and then also don't get to have geneware? xD

Also what about skin Qi Foci, they go away when you shift, right? I'll probably need Magic Fingers on this guy soon...
Ally Spirits will be considered to have Force+Edge services for the purposes of Banishing, including their Banishing Resistance power.

These services rejuvenate at sunrise and sunset at the summoner's location.

A spirit's edge is set to it's summoner's with a new Ritual of Change, but otherwise cannot be improved.
Rules Thread VI
MagicWhat the hell does the environmental adaptation mod for armor actually do? Anything at all? Nothing?Nothing? Fluffy, I guess. Edit: To be clear, there is nothing it does to my knowledge. This is not an authoritative statement.Rules Thread VI
MagicSo, if you get new adept powers after acquiring a way discount, and swap Ways, do you get to choose which powers you drop once the discounts are out of the way?You do.Rules Thread VI
AugmentationsI have a few fairly detailed questions about how to average partial cyberlimbs. I looked through previous threads, and couldn't find any answers.

1.) To what extent do cyberhands/feet affect attributes? Are there any rolls where the attributes of cyberhands/feet would come into play? Would there be any functional difference between a single cyberhand/foot or a pair? 2.) To what extent do partial cyberlimbs affect attributes? This may have been answered in the last thread, but do the same rules apply equally to both partial and full cyberlimbs? 3.) If you have two partial cyberlegs, does your movement speed rely on your regular agility, the agility of the partial cyberlegs, or some average of the two?

4.) Does the physical limit bonus from Hydraulic Jacks cancel out the physical limit penalty from Skates/Skimmers? For example, if I have R2 hydraulic jacks and skimmers, does the -2 penalty go away from having skimmers out?
Cyberhands/feet do not average into attributes. They do come into play on grip-only rolls, which are admittedly rare and basically GM fiat. This does not change when one is using a pair vs. using a single.

Partial cyberlimbs average with meat to provide the effective stat for the whole limb. See above. Movement is average of you two legs.

Only for the purposes of jumping and sprinting.
Rules Thread VI
Magic1.) does the dicepool penalty to perception from the Adept Enhancement Digital Celerity (-1 per initiate grade) stack with the same dicepool penalty from the Adept Power Light Touch (-1 per level of the power) for tests to spot palming? 2.) Does the regular (not Adept) centering metamagic help with drain from adept powers?It does. My apologies - I clearly need to get a newer printing. I thought I had the newest printing for all the books.Rules Thread VI
MedicineThink there was a request for the first question to be threaded recently but it doesn't seem to have been done, maybe it was eventually answered on discord. Anyways:

Does using a stim patch while still under the influence of another stim patch trigger overdose rules? Does the use of stim patches fall under the drug interactions table? If you have multiple gradual release drug glands, do they trigger the drug interactions table? (ETA) How does a nephritic screen work with gradual release? is the downside of it (the reduced duration of drugs) just ignored?

(ninja edit 2) Given that Red Mesc and Psyche don't have drug interactions. If you take a third drug while under the influence of those two, do you roll 1 or 2 d6 for the drug interaction table?
It does.

It does not. Yes, but only when you take another drug. That downside is ignored.

Rules Thread VI
WeaponsCan clubs be specialized towards improvised melee weapons, or the use of guns as a melee weapon. (IE can I specialize clubs in gunkata)Clubs may be specialized "improvised." This would include firearms as melee weapons (use stats listed in Run and Gun)Rules Thread VI
AugmentationSo, can one go on runs while undergoing genetic therapies/treatments? If so, how long can a character be out of the vat? Is it just paused until they hop back in, or is there some penalty for stopping for extended periods of time?Gene treatments can be stacked - you can get more than one at once. They do not even have to begin or end concurrently.Rules Thread VI
AugmentationI'd like to ask what sort of limitations exist, if any, on what can be placed into a chemical gland? (IE: Produced by said gland, on gradual release, to be perpetually active without being required to purchase the drug in enormous quantities.)The following is all subject to change at Rules Department discretion. If it is changed, any affected characters will be permitted a refund at a minimum.

The following list is an inclusive listing of permitted drugs to be created by a Chemical gland. Some of these range from "bad idea" to "not possible" for gradual release. All drugs in the Core Rulebook are permitted. Long Haul may not be used in gradual release. BTLs, obviously, may not be made. All drugs in Chrome Flesh, with the following exceptions, are permitted. No magical compounds, awakened drugs, or BTLs listed in Chrome Flesh are permitted. Cereprax is not permitted. Dopadrine is not permitted. Hurlg is not permitted. K-10 is not permitted. Nightwatch is not permitted. NoPaint is not permitted. Sober Time is not permitted. Soothsayer is not permitted.

All drugs in Boston Lockdown are permitted.
Rules Thread VI
Augmentation1) If you get the cyberware 'Skin Toner', can you have it apply its effect to the exterior of cyberlimbs, as well as any skin the character has, since it's cyberware, not bioware? Like, call it having the RPC weaved into both the skin, and layered onto the surface of the 'limbs casemods.'

An example would be if Jet picked it up, along with a chameleon processor (A piece of 'ware which has a capacity rating, somewhat indicating that implantation into a cyberlimb was a possibility, which would be somewhat pointless if a cyberlimb ruined the effect.) would she be able to alter the colour of just her face, or of the entirety of her exterior?

2) I'm curious as to how the SURGE quality Satyr legs interacts with cyberlegs, if at all? Additionally, how would it interact with cyberlegs modified to have the 'Digigrade legs' enhancement.

3) Would it be possible to place FAB I or II in a gas grenade, to create some sort of gas grenade that would outline astral entities, and block astral LoS?

Alternatively, does regular smoke, or thermal smoke, block astral LoS?
For simplicity's sake, Skin Toner will apply to cyberlimbs, including the effects of a Chameleon Processor. It is not, however, sufficient to make one's obvious limbs be not-obvious. They just can be flesh-colored. Or whatever.

Needs further consideration. I appreciate your patience.

No FAB grenades. Regular smoke and thermal smoke do block LOS in Astral.
Rules Thread VI
MagicMaterial links on page 297 of the core book clarification. Is 'hours' and 'days' a specific time, or a 'what works best for the story' that can be measured in a reasonable number of hours or days?

It specifically mentions that Material Links can be frozen for later use. Is there a time limit on how long this lasts? To use a material link, can a material link stay frozen, or do you have to thaw it out so that it starts to spoil?

How much material do you need for a material link?
Material Link duration is left to the discretion of GMs within the guidelines in the book.

There is no concrete time limit beyond what a GM says. A good rule of thumb is that a normal freezer increases the span by 5 times, and an industrial deep freezer increases it by 10 times, but whatever works for the plot is best. A material link can stay frozen in use.

As little as a pinky nail clipping is sufficient, but will not last long at all.
Rules Thread VI
MagicOn Water Spirts, does Energy Aura: Water

A) Do any damage at all, because it says Water doesn't do Condition Monitor damage, but Energy Aura days that it does damage regardless of the element?

B) If it does do damage, is it Stun or Physical?
Elemental Aura: Water does not do any damage. It is very good at knocking people on their asses, though, which is very useful to a melee-oriented spirit.Rules Thread VI
MatrixDue to the similarity in effects between the Mathemagics Echo on page 58-59 of Data Havens, as well as the Math SPU. Would it be fair to say the Math SPU's bonus applies to encoding and decrypting as well?It would not be fair. They do not confer the same bonusesRules Thread VI
MagicQuestion that came up in discord: Astral perception. Do any vision specific things affect it? For example, vision mag in cybereyes, hawk eye quality, etc. Or is it only affected by things that affect perception in general, such as Perceptive and Oblivious?Vision specific things do not affect Astral Perception unless they explicitly state they do.Rules Thread VI
DowntimeCannnn you! Burn edge to smackdown in Greater Rolling?You can, for the time being. This is subject to change at a later date. If this delayed you, you are free to backdate the initiation.Rules Thread VI
MagicSo masking covers your aura and foci, but with extended masking it says that it can now disguise sustained spells.

So if you attempt to appear mundane but have a spell sustained with only basic masking they'll know your aura is bullshit. This is where it gets complicated.

If you have a foci for sustaining spells and the spell sustained on your character is being held by the foci, will the spell be masked when you possess basic masking, or just the foci sustaining it
Just the focus sustaining it.Rules Thread VI
RiggingGot some questions on antrodrones Anthro drones are described as being able to use "some metahuman equipment" in rigger 5. weapons and clothing are listed as examples so armored clothing doesn't seem to be too far of a next step. The thing is, the bulkier armor has negatives do these apply to the drone too?

Also do I need to increase the price of the clothing to cover for some features like if I added a extra arm or more extreme mods like rocket boosters? Can I give it a rating 3 anti theft with the electroshock option and use it like a stun glove? As autosofts seem to be able to loaded with any skill douse that mean I could load one with negotiation to create a protocol unit? If so what kind of penalties would they possible take and would they get bonus dice for high fashion? Can a drone that is loaded with a skill autosoft that is being operated by its pilot assist with a skill check? If I give it a cyberdeck and jump into it would I be able to hack through the drone as long as I have the skills?

Finally douse a drone running on a pilot program need a languagesoft to communicate?
What negatives are you referring to?

You... don't. Technically. It's gonna look funny, though. Also, Rocket Boosters are a vehicle mod and thus cannot be placed on a drone. Anti-theft rating 3 is a vehicle mod and thus cnanot be placed on a drone. You can just give an anthrodrone shock gloves, though. The list of available autosofts and skillsofts is limited - negotiation is not on that list. This is the section on skillsofts while this and this detail autosofts. A drone that possesses a skill can provide assistance as per normal. You could hack through a cyberdeck without that, as long as you're running your persona through the cyberdeck.

A drone running on pilot needs linguasofts only to communicate verbally. Note that they come with the lingua franca and the manufacturer's language - typically english and whoever made it (Japanese is really common.)
Rules Thread VI
WeaponsSay I have multiple weapons with the custom look mod(Hard Targets 180). Do the +1 modifiers to memory tests stack? Asking for a friendNeither bonus stacks. You can have two Wicked Sick pistols, but you only get a +1 to intimidation and +1 to be remembered.Rules Thread VI
MagicA bunch of questions about the Exorcism metamagic:

1.) Is the drain from Exorcism ever physical, or is it exclusively stun? 2.) Would the centering metamagic help with Exorcism?

3.) How much time can be taken between attempts at Exorcism? If an extended Exorcism test is halted half way though, does it need to be re-started from scratch? Would an unfinished Exorcism halt the progress of a possession in any way (i.e. slow down the progress of a queen bug spirit)?
1.) Drain shall be exclusively stun.

2.) Yes, assuming, of course, one is centering as one exorcises.

3.) All attempts must be made in the same "scene." Exorcism is not an extended test, but hits from attempts stack even if you do things between. Unfinished exorcisms have no effect (beyond being hits for later attempts in-scene.)
Rules Thread VI
WeaponsCan a pistol crossbow (or any crossbow for that matter, but pistol crossbow specifically) be cybernatically implanted as a custom cyberweapon? It's mentioned that exotic pistols are to be treated as heavy, and tasers as hold out.Pistol Crossbows may be implanted as a custom cyber heavy pistol.

Light, medium, and heavy crossbows may not be implanted. Note that since they are 4 (m) their ammo is unaffected.

For other custom cyberweapons, if they are (c), you utilize the ammo of the standard implanted internal magazine (m), unless you implant and utilize an external clip port. For non (c) custom cyberweapons, they operate as normal.
Rules Thread VI
MagicYou need to know the rituals Create an ally/Ritual of change to create/enhance ally, but do you need ranks in the Ritual spellcasting skill? Creating an ally takes an arcana test for the formula and then a summoning test followed by a binding test. The text for Ritual of Change only calls out an arcana test for the new spirit formula but the text also includes: "The rebinding ritual, known as a Ritual of Change". What tests does the Ritual of Change include? Arcana+Binding? Arcana+Summoning+Binding?You do need ranks in Ritual Spellcasting, both to learn them (the test includes it) and to perform them. In order to summon an Ally Spirit, you must have a formula (which can be made by rolling out Arcana or by a run to go on a metaplanar quest for it.) You must then perform the ritual, with a force equal to the force of the ally you are trying to summon. Lacking a timespan, assume it takes 1 hour per point of force. After you successfully complete the ritual, you must summon the spirit, rolling the normal rolls for such. Spirit Whisperer does not come into play, for sanity's sake. Then, finally, you must bind the spirit (or give up and try again another day.)Rules Thread VI
MagicI have a few questions about casting levitate at the last moment when jumping out of a tall building to save one's self from the fall. I ask because it is not only important to find out if the runners don't splat, but also how high up in the air they are when they cast the spell.

After talking to slash, I think this is the most reasonable way to handle it. 1) find the fall distance for the combat turn 2) roll initiative, divide passes by the fall burn turn. Find the fall per pass. 3) the runner picks which pass they cast the spell one. One sticking point is if the runner falls then casts or casts then falls. 4) from the pass they cast levitate on, we find the distance to the ground. They then levitate down from there.

I ask this only because this is an extremely common way that runners are leaving tall buildings, and leaving it to GM fiat is causing confusion. Depending on the distance above ground, security might be able to take some shots at the levitating mage as they are floating down slowly.
For the purposes of falling, assume any actions performed while falling occur at the moment the person performing them desires them, with the sole restriction that it must move forward in time - My second pass cannot be used to perform actions at a greater height than my first. This means they may choose to cast it whenever they please. Leaving it for the last moment may or may not be a bad idea - do you think you can manage to not glitch?Rules Thread VI
MagicCan multiple sprites assist with threading a single complex form or do they follow spirit rules? (Only one assist per)They follow spirit rules.Rules Thread VI
CritterPursuant to a discussion on the discord I'm asking what the stat block of a crow and a raven, their availability, and price are for ShadowNET as they are not in the current list. In the discord you said they would have analogous stats which I agree with mostly, but if I maybe so bold as to make one suggestion it would be this. As a Raven is generally considerably larger then a crow (twice the weight, and 7 inch greater wingspan on average), perhaps it can have one or both levels of the fragile weakness that the crow possess removed (with compensating availability and price changes, of course).Crow and Raven, for simplicity sake (despite a reasonable argument) will remain identical. They shall be added to the table in the post within minutes.Rules Thread VI
Magic1) Are either the "Zombie" or "Corpse Cadavre" Rituals allowed on shadownet? I seem to recall at the very least Corpse Cadavre not being allowed.

2) Does Witness my Hate add damage to Spellblades? Considering they act like direct spells. (with the added caveat of armor playing into the soak pool per net house rules)

3) Can you use masking to make it appear as though you're not on the astral plane when you are? IE: Dual Natured characters
Corpse Cadavre and Zombie rituals are banned, per this post.

Witness my Hate does not affect Spellblades, as they do not have the (direct) tag.

You cannot use masking to disappear from the Astral, only to appear as something different.
Rules Thread VI
AugmentationIf you have two chemical glands with drugs that trigger an overdose with each other, when is the damage from that overdose taken? Right after the surgery? Every day? This also applies to perma-slotting hacked-BTLs that would have an overdose effect...Every time the duration would come up were you simply taking it again as soon as it were ordinarily done (in both cases)Rules Thread VI
ToxinsOn immunity to toxins. Specifically when applied to infected characters. Do drugs count as toxins for the purposes of this power, for example can an infected character take and receive the benefits of say psyche. Edit: wrapping another question in here, can infected take geneware, and will regeneration cause the geneware to be pushed out.I wouldhave sworn I answered this one, apologies.

Immunity (Toxins) confers total immunity to drugs except where explicitly excepted.

Infected geneware and whatnot are detailed in a pin in #ooc-rules, found here - - in short, they can take it, but regeneration will spit it out.
Rules Thread VI
MagicAnd here is another.

Under the assensing table 3 hits will allow you a: A general diagnosis for any maladies (diseases or toxins) the subject suffers. However at 5 hits it says it will give you a: An accurate diagnosis of any disease or toxins which afflict the subject. What is shadownets standing on this in regards to infection? Do 3 hits say, "this person is infected" or "this person is afflicted with a magical disease" Obviously 5 hits would tell you exactly what strain but it also says, "accurate." Whilst 3 hits says, "General." there are other magical diseases, but there are only different strains of hmhvv. VITAS for example is a magical disease with many strains and would fall into the general diagnosis area were it to be considered. Either way learning the person you just assensed has a magical disease will be horrifying due to fear of both vitas and hmhvv, but it may change Characters reaction. I rescind this question because on page 141 of run faster you find this text, "An Infected character’s aura always reveals its Infected nature, though this may be masked by metamagic as normal" Which says if you assense them and get 1 hit you know. Boom. Infected person. You can still decide what level gives you the specifics of you'd like though.

On a related note. Is dissonance detectable at any assensing level below 5 hits? Is it even detectable at 5 hits?
Dissonance as opposed to resonance is not discernable at any stage by assensing, though dissonance technos are still, obviously, technomancers, which is information gleaned at 5 hits.Rules Thread VI
MagicOn Initiation Ordeals. Which Ordeal types are legal on the NET? Some of them seem incompatible for the living game's scenario, or at least too clunky for intended usage.Initiatory ordeals are a good place for a GM to draw inspiration from for initiatory runs, but for the time being, we will not utilize any of the strictly-rolled ones, nor will we utilize a direct form of, say, Hermit.Rules Thread VI
MagicHey, I have a fairly intricate question about how the adept power "Improved Ability (Skill)" works. The power effectively gives you extra ranks in a skill, but how do those extra ranks work with for receiving extra dice through a teamwork test and with language proficiency. Can you help clarify these?

Extra dice through a teamwork test: If you have 6 ranks in a skill (i.e. demolitions) and 3 ranks in Improved Ability (demolitions), how many extra dice can you get from a teamwork test, 6 or 9?

Limitations from Language Proficiency: If you have 6 ranks in a language (i.e. German), 6 ranks in a social skill (i.e. Con), and 3 ranks in Improved Ability (con), how many dice can you roll when using the Con skill in German, 6 or 9?
The Improved Ability adept power does increase the number of teamwork dice you can accept - in your situation, you could take 9 dice, assuming your teammates could muster the appropriate number of hits on their teamwork test. However, since they're skill ranks, they are bounded by language restrictions. You could only take 6 dice from skill ranks in your situation. However, note that dice from other sources - charisma, tailored pheromones, situational mods, and other, non-Improved Ability adept powers are not bounded by this restriction.Rules Thread VI
DrugsI have a follow-up question to this ruling regarding the "Gradual Release Chemical Gland" bioware: How are the crash effects handled for drugs if you are affected by them all the time? Are you always under the crash effects?You do not crash until the effects wear off - with gradual release, they do not wear off, so you do not suffer Crash effects.Rules Thread VI
WeaponsOther than just buying a new gun, is there any way to remove the smartlink/electronics for the purpose of buying ceramic/plasteel components?Purchasing ceramic/plasteel components will automatically remove any smartlinks or electronics in the firearm.Rules Thread VI
MagicThe Rapid Draw Adept Power seems to be very good, letting you quickdraw and attack with a melee weapon as a free action. Does this power has a restriction on which weapons you can rapid draw? Would this power stack with Iaijutsu in letting you quickdraw any properly holstered melee weapon?Since the SR5 writes don't seem to understand their own ruleset, and in order to enforce some degree of sanity...

Rapid Draw shall be assumed to allow you to - with a successful Quick Draw test - Ready a Weapon with a Free Action. It will not allow you to make an attack with that same Free Action, though you are free to attack afterwards. It does not function with melee weapons (except as you consider firearms improvised melee weapons.) Iajutsu shall be assumed to allow one to - with a successful Quick Draw test - Ready a melee Weapon with a simple action, and then attack with a second simple action if desired. It will not allow one to attack as part of the same simple action as used to draw it.

EDIT: I missed a word in what I presume was sleep deprivation. To benefit as a melee weapon, it must be properly sheathed. I hate catalyst.
Rules Thread VI
AugmentationCan one combine the Supernatural Prowess Metamagic with other forms of attribute boosters, such as Muscle Toners, Augmentations, or Improved Attribute? It explicitly only says it cannot be combined with the 'Attribute Boost' adept power.Given that it replaces, rather than augments, the attribute, other alterations do not apply.Rules Thread VI
RiggingSo I have many questions about Anthrodrones since these guys leave me scratching my head in many, many cases.

When piloting an anthrodrone, can you use it to also pilot another vehicle? If so, do you still use the VR stats for that? (This one is more just crazyness because I know I'll have to control vehicle twice in a combat turn...or would I?) Skates/Skimmers, do they work as normal if at all for anthrodrones? Does Pilot Walker cover physical skill test once can do with the drone? (Gymnastics, Swimming, ect?) Any limits? Does the Control Rig threshold reduction apply to such actions?

Any limits to metahuman equipment, or anything a people can do, you can do with an anthrodrone?
You can use it to pilot another vehicle. You do use VR stats. You would not gain any benefits from a Control Rig or qualities such as Vehicle Empathy. You would have to make two seperate Control Vehicle actions each turn.

Skates and Skimmers do not alter Anthrodrone movement rates. The appropriate Pilot skill is used to maneuver a vehicle. Anything that would otherwise be Gymnastics or otherwise not possible for an ordinary vehicle would be considered a stunt, with GM-set thresholds functioning as normal.

I do not answer open-ended questions like that, for fear they will be used against me.
Rules Thread VI
MagicImproved sense: Ultrasound, yes or no? Caveats maybe?The team says yes. I have no idea how it works biomechanically, sorry.Rules Thread VI
GearReposting unanswered questions from the earlier thread.

How much damage do shock frills do? Shockweave does 8S, but the shock frills doesn't specify. Does Sunbeam halve the damage before or after you add net hits? Can the Thrillseeker quality gained from Dareadrenaline be bought off? If I channel and take drugs that affect my mentals, do I get the drug bonus to my spirit's mentals, since we're in th same body? If I cast an Increase attribute spell in the morning, does it affect the spirit mentals once I am channeling, assuming it's at a high enough force? How about Increase Reflexes? Does it cost a service to use a spirit's skills? If so, does it take one service for every instance even in combat? While channeling, is it one service per power use even while in combat?

Does Energy Aura take a service to use, seeing as it's always on? Does it expend one service per punch?
Shock Frills do 8S, AP-5, but require an explicit attack to make use of and differ from shock gloves in that they are obvious at a glance and take up armor capacity.

Sunbeam halves damage after net hits. The Thrillseeker quality from Daredrenaline cannot be bought off. If you had the quality prior, or gain it a second time after (and thus face the threshold of 3), you may buy it off, but you are left with the quality at the normal threshold of 2. Spirits can't use drugs. You can use drugs, but the spirit's mentals replace yours. However, the drugs are still in effect on your mentals for the purpose of defense against direct spells, which are calculated off of the lower of your two mentals. Non-mental attribute effects of drugs - bumps to physical stats, high pain tolerance, and etc. operate as usual. If the Increase Attribute spell is at a sufficient force to match the spirit's mentals, it will remain in effect once you channel. Increase Reflexes remains in effect. It does not cost a service to make use of the spirit's skills. It is one service per power use, even while in combat. The exception to this is if you relinquish control to the spirit and then tell it to fight in the combat, at which point it uses powers as it (read - the GM, should they choose to exercise partial or total control) deems fit.

Energy Aura is always-on and does not require a service to use, activate, or otherwise benefit from.
Rules Thread VI

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