Rules Thread VII

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TopicQuestionAnswerThread
QualityCan Black Market Pipeline apply to both cyberware and bioware at the same time, i.e Augmentations?Black Market Pipeline can be applied to the group 'augmentations' rather than any specific subtype.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationCould a finger tip injector also be used to squirt someone with a dose of DMSO modified drug? As an injector it certainly has the ability to squirt out liquid, but just making sure. To be clear, I just want to be sure that it could be used to dose someone with a contact vector using the appropriate roll.FIngertip injector can be used to apply DMSO'd contact toxins, but it must be used on an immobilised (subdued, or similar) or unaware target.Rules Thread VII
ArmorWhat armor cannot be worn with an FBA, if any? Aside from the PPP pieces that explicitly state they don't stack.FBA can be worn with any armour that doesn't state it won't stack with the FBA, such as PPP. Some common sense will need to be applied, since you can't stack an FBA helmet with a normal helmet, for example, but I'm not about to make a list of what pieces of armour stack with every other pieces of armour.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationWhen considering Hydraulic Jacks, does the terminology "rating point" apply to the sum total of rating points between your legs, or does it merely mean the rating you have in each leg?Hydraulic jacks will take the rating of the pair of the legs to be their effective rating, rather than the combined rating of the two (So rating 4 in each leg would reduce falling by 8 meters, rather than 16, for example.)Rules Thread VII
MedicineWhat is required to count as "a clinical setting under the supervision of a trained doctor" to get the "user does not take penalties from mixing drugs" effect of Zero on p184 Chrome Flesh? Namely, what is meant by "clinical setting" and "trained doctor"?Consider the test to administer Zero in this manner to be a simple Medicine + Logic [mental] test, with a threshold of 3, that requires a medicine shop or facility to perform, and hits can be bought, if deemed appropriate by the GM. It should be noted that when applied in this manner, Zero simply negates the penalty from mixing itself with other drugs. It does not negate the penalty from other drugs mixing. Meaning, if I take psyche, cram, and have Zero administered by a trained doctor in a clinical setting, I still take drug interaction from psyche and cram, but not from all three together.Rules Thread VII
WeaponsQuestions about Quick-draw sheathes: Do they exist? Are they obtainable? They are directly mentioned, though in fluff, on page 18 in Run and Gun in the section on the Highland Forge Claymore, however they are not directly stated anywhere. Thoughts?Quick-draw sheathes don't exist (Mechanically, at least), unfortunately, despite being referenced, it seems like one of the cases of separation of fluff & mechanics in the system.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationCan an XM-30 in carbine mode be fitted into a custom Submachine gun implant slot? And while extended/out, can it be modified into the other XM-30 forms for using the different ranges and ammo?The XM-30 cannot be implanted as a cyberweapon, even if in carbine configuration.Rules Thread VII
WeaponsFor the HK XM30, do the different configurations change concealability? For example, is the carbine easier to conceal, and the sniper rifle harder?Yes. They use the concealabilities of the appropriate weapon types. If in doubt, ask here or in #ooc-rules about specific cases.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationDoes Used and other grades of Ware affect the price of the drug accompanying the Chemical Gland?The full price for a chemical gland, including the drugs, is modified by the grade of the 'ware.Rules Thread VII
WeaponsCan you use Smashing Blow with natural weapons?Yes, as per this: https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/64v9da/rules_thread_vii/dgwn1ut/ Natural weapons will count as unarmed attacks.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationDo inhabition spirits that are flesh form also gain access to DNI and Ware of the vessel like hybrid form spirits?

Can free spirits spend Karma to learn spells assuming they have the spell formula?

Can free spirits spend Karma to buy positive qualities?
Flesh form inhabitation spirits can make use of DNI & 'ware of the vessel they inhabit. The last two questions are entirely GM fiat.Rules Thread VII
CombatOn the Cold Damage effect from Ice Storm, does it benefit from the spell's AP for the purposes of breaking the target's armor?Cold damage does not take into account the spell's AP for the elemental effect.Rules Thread VII
CombatSkill bonuses (not ranks) from ware/magic/specs for full defense tests with qualities like acrobatic defender and perceptive defender, yay or nay?General skill modifiers (Such as synthacardium, natural athlete, or the wireless bonus of an attention coprocessor) apply to full defence with perceptive defender or acrobatic defender. Specific modifiers (Such as vision enhancement only applying to visual perception) do not applyRules Thread VII
MagicHow much weight can a physical barrier hold per hit? If, for example, I wanted to use it as a bridge. How much speed/body can a physical barrier take from a vehicle using it as a ramp?GM's retain the right to determine the answer to this question as they see fit, depending on the situation involved, but some guidelines for what a barrier could support would be the following:

2 hits: Average metahuman 4 hits: Heavy metahuman (ork, troll, heavily augmented) or light vehicle (bikes and jackrabbits) 6 hits: Average vehicle (cars and vans) 8+ hits: Heavy vehicle (trailers, tanks, trucks.)

But these are, as mentioned, just guidelines. GM's may wish to compare hits on the physical barrier spell to the barrier ratings table on p197 of the CRB, and determine what is reasonable for a barrier to support from there.
Rules Thread VII
Magicif you have Facial Sculpt or Body Sculpt in a focus, and it shuts off(due to deactivation or Background Counts) what happens to one's face and body? How long until the changes revert for each power?They will revert in the same interval it takes to set the changes in the first place. As an example, since it takes one minute to change your face with facial sculpt, your face will begin reverting as soon as the focus switches off, and complete within one minute.Rules Thread VII
MagicPage 187 of Chrome Flesh, the drug Wud’aku, it says it gives +2 effective Charisma when dealing with Spirits of Man? What does this mean? You can bind more Spirits of Man as if your Charisma two was higher? Spirits of Man are nicer to you? If you can bind more Spirits of Man, do they disappear once the drug wear off?Spirits, being sapient entities, can, at GM discretion, have social checks made against them. This drug would assist you with said checks, since you would have higher charisma. It does not allow you to bind more spirits.Rules Thread VII
MagicPage 18 of Shadow Spells has Passenger, which copies the borrow sense spell, but borrows ALL the senses. It's... also of duration instant. Does common sense prevail here and make it sustaining like the spell it copies from, or how does the instant duration actually affect it?This spell should be sustained. Instant is simply non functionalRules Thread VII
MagicOkay. So basically, they can do mundane functions if they have the computer skill, but even with a spell like Analyze Device, it doesn't understand the Matrix at large, but just how to work that device better.

Realistic Form is also not realistic enough to simulate Neural functions, now giving it somewhat of a 'realism' limit where one was not really described by RAW.

Am I understanding that correctly?
Okay. So basically, they can do mundane functions if they have the computer skill, but even with a spell like Analyze Device, it doesn't understand the Matrix on a technical level, but just how to work that device better. Additionally, they are still realistic enough to seem metahuman to most, if not all, physical analysis, they simply do not possess the mental capability to use DNI, even when emulating a brain.Rules Thread VII
Gear1.) How do Shopsoft/Datahost/Mapping System subscriptions affect gameplay? The section on page 81 of chrome flesh (OMNISCIENCE, OR NOT) is somewhat ambiguous. If they work just like datasoft/mapsoft/shopsoft programs from the core book, they only add +1 to the limit to their associated tests. Do they do anything besides that?

2.) Can different leadership actions (mainly "Inspire" and "Rally") be used on teammates over DNI or voice call? If so, are they affected by noise? Can they be done while in Hot/Cold-Sim? 3.) Can an Agent be used to perform the Computer + Device Rating test associated with "CarnivoreGold" from Cutting Aces 144? 4.) Following the Multiple Explosions rule, what is the effect of using a combination of Stun and Physical damage explosives (i.e. a Flash-Bang and a HE Grenade together)? 5.) Can foci hidden in a Biofiber pocket be detected using divination magic? 6.) Are the effects of a Rally test rounded-up or -down? i.e. If a player gets 3 on their Rally test, does the team get 1 or 2 initiative?

7.) How do drug interaction rolls work when you have two-or-more chemical gland implants with gradual release drugs? Do you roll 1 dice or 2+ to determine the drug effect?
1 - They provide no additional mechanical effect, but fluff-wise, they can be used to provide live, real time information on their subject matter, which may provide other effects at GM discretion.

2 - These actions can be used over the matrix, in cold/hot VR, or over a voice call, but are not matrix actions, so they don't take noise modifiers, or receive the hot-sim bonus. However, if you cannot connect due to noise, then no test can be made. 3 - An agent can be used to perform this test on the device it's running on. 4 - Resolve the effects of an explosion separately in the case of combining sources of stun & physical damage, such as the case you mentioned. 5 - Foci in a biofiber pocket can be detected using divination magic. 6 - Rally effectively rounds down for effects, in that you trade two of your successes for each point of initiative. So three hits would get you one initiative.

7 - Whenever you take another drug, in addition to the ones already in your system, roll (number of drugs - 1)d6, for drug interaction purposes.
Rules Thread VII
QualityWould a synthmask be enough to cover a infected from sunlight on the face for the purposes of bringing the sunlight allergy down to mild in conjunction with other full body coverings plus sunglasses. Edit: same question with smart wigs for the back of the head.Synthskin facemask is not enough to qualify for allergy (sunlight) reduction.Rules Thread VII
WeaponsFor the HK XM30 carbine configuration would you use the assault rifle spec or smg spec for automatics.XM-30 would, in carbine configuration, use the SMG specRules Thread VII
RiggingCan I fluff any car as being a convertible, or would the Extra Entry/Exit Points modification be needed/work instead? Part fluff reasons, part crunch. Vera's claustrophobia has gotten worse and there's not a single vehicle that is a convertible RAW.You can fluff any car as a convertible, if you so choose. If you want mechanical details for this, extra/entry points works, as does Yerzed out.Rules Thread VII
CombatCan you do multiple called shots at once if you have Perfect Time?Called shots cannot be stacked upon one another by spending multiple free actions.Rules Thread VII
MagicSay you have a guard looking at some camera feeds. It's my table, so they get 9 hits on 9 dice. However, they will be limited to the camera's DR of 3 in that. Is that true?The rating of a camera serves to limit how much capacity of modifications it can take, rather than impose a limit. If a person is using a sensor that is not in an array, they use their mental limit for perception tests. If they are using a sensor that is in an array, they have the option of using the sensors rating instead of their own limit.Rules Thread VII
MatrixCan anyone with appropriate matrix attributes use any of the matrix actions on page 30 of Rigger 5, or are they exclusively for RCCs?Any device with the appropriate limit (Data processing, sleaze, attack, etc.) can use the matrix actions from p30 of R5.0. RCC's simply get dice pool bonuses to them, as specified in the text of each ability. (Although the device does need to be able to run a persona for you to be able to do it.)Rules Thread VII
MagicFor the Realistic Form power in street grimoire on page 198. What can a spirit turn into, can they become a car or a gun and if so do they need fuel or ammo to function or do they always work?The realistic form power cannot be used to turn into anything of mechanical significance. This means that a spirit cannot become a gun, a sword, a motorcycle, a cyberdeck, or any other piece of gear with actual mechanical effects. They can, however, perfectly imitate (On the physical, they're still vulnerable to astral perception unless they also have aura masking, and cannot connect to the matrix.) any object of metahuman size or less that doesn't have mechanical effects, such as a hat, a toaster, a bicycle, a shoe, or the like.Rules Thread VII
MagicHere comes a few questions about Shapechange, oh boi Can you use martial arts while under the effects of the Shapechange spell?Shapechanged individuals can use martial arts, with the exception of techniques requiring weapon use.Rules Thread VII
MagicQuestion regarding remote sensing ritual.

Situation: Mage and the rest of the group are in the temporary lodge. Mage is the only one participating in the ritual. Casts the Mind Net spell to link everyone. Can the rest of the team (not the Mage) leave the lodge without breaking the ritual, considering the only part they played was being the target?

Part 2: if the above question is yes, will they then be linked at the standard Remote Sensing range of Force * Magic * 100? Provided the Mage sustaining it stays in the lodge, of course.
Yes to both of these.Rules Thread VII
MatrixIncrease Gear Limits reads "This set of spells allows a spellcaster to temporarily upgrade or downgrade targeted gear by increasing a single limitation category, such as Accuracy". If it is used on a deck, is the "limitation category" a single matrix attribute or all matrix attributes?Every matrix attribute counts as a separate limitation category for the purposes of increase/decrease gear limits. It's also worth noting that this spell increases/decreases the limit, rather than the derived attribute. So increasing the sleaze limit on a cyberdeck won't give you more running silent dice. Or increasing the firewall limit doesn't give you more dice to resist matrix damage.Rules Thread VII
WeaponsI've got a question. If I fired a Parashield Dart Pistol, would it be as loud as a handgun? Or would it make that video game dart sound?It's quieter than a handgun, but the threshold of tests to hear it is definitely in the realm of GM fiat. I'd suggest 3, one above 2 for silenced gunfire, but, it's up to GM's.Rules Thread VII
DrugsI have several questions about the drug 'Accelerator':

1.) Does the Platelet Factory implant reduce the bleeding damage from using it? 2.) Does a pneumatic anti-shock garment (PAG) affect the bleeding damage at all?

3.) Does the "–2 penalty to Body for all Damage Resistance Tests" affect drain/fade tests?
1.) Platelet Factories will reduce the bleed damage of Accelerator.

2.) Pneumatic Anti-Shock Garments do not affect the bleed damage of Accelerator.

3.) Accelerator's penalty to damage resistance tests affects drain tests that include Body (Notably for some adepts.) They do not affect any fading tests to my knowledge, as, again, to my knowledge, fading never includes Body. If it did, it would be included.
Rules Thread VII
MagicDoes a Counterspelling Focus add to your overall spell defense pool, regardless of the type of magic it is associated to? Or is it an awkward 'Combat/Manipulation/Health' only Spell Defense Pool?Does a Counterspelling Focus add to your overall spell defense pool, regardless of the type of magic it is associated to? Or is it an awkward 'Combat/Manipulation/Health' only Spell Defense Pool?Rules Thread VII
CritterCan we get a cost for a Raccoon? (Just the normal, mundane, raccoon.) Also, what stats/price would we use for a Red Panda?A raccoon will cost 250nY, with an availability of - a Red Panda will just use the price, stats, and availability, of a raccoon.Rules Thread VII
RiggingGMC Armadillo. How work? I'm interested in buying one, buuut I don't know how the different beds work. Or what all the options do. It sounds LOVELY for just general utility but... yeah.This was answered on p23 of the rules clarifications doc.Rules Thread VII
MagicFor Spotter rituals, it states that the spotter doesn't take part in the teamwork test; does this mean they don't have to be trained in ritual casting? Pages 295-297 Core book. Follow-up: what do non-magi use to resist drain? Adepts: Body+drain like any other adept power with drain? Dual natured critters, or thing with astral perception like pixies and naga?An individual that is capable of being dual-natured (Whether by astrally perceiving, or naturally being dual natured.) can be the spotter for a ritual. If they do not have a tradition (By being a mysad or magician.) then they resist the drain with body+willpower.Rules Thread VII
GMPCan you confirm that GMP is taxed if you have a SINner quality?GMP is not taxed, if you have qualities that tax you, as per this council vote.Rules Thread VII
MatrixData Taps: Can you place one in order for your decker to gain a direct connection to whatever the data tap is connected to remotely?Data taps can only be used to direct connect physically, via universal data port.Rules Thread VII
CombatSo. Splitting dice in a multiattack with a ranged weapon useing simple Full auto. Would that not shot 2*6 bullets therefor 12 recoil? Or how is the recoil handled in the case of 1 gun firing at 2 people with 2 simple full autosSplitting dice with a multiattack applies a penalty equal to (bullets fired at target - 1), so if you simple full auto split dice at two people, three bullets at each, each takes a -2. Or, if you complex full auto at two people, 5 bullets at each, each takes a -4. You can split up the bullets in any method/grouping you choose. Recoil applies as normal, every bullet fired being one point.Rules Thread VII
DrugsCan drugs reduce physical attributes to 0, thus paralyzing you?Drugs can reduce an attribute to zero, which will render you nonfunctional until the duration of that effect expires.Rules Thread VII
CombatHow exactly does Sacrifice Throw work? It says an interrupt action and doesn't have any prerequisites for taking. Does this mean I can suplex people on other people's turns? It doesn't mention requiring a grapple or a block beforehand. Is it possible to use on my turn, and if so will that still be a -10 initiative move?Sacrifice throw will work just like the standard throw person, in that it can be performed with a simple action while in a clinch, or subduing combat, or as a -10 initiative interrupt action after a successful block.Rules Thread VII
RiggingLight Body power and Freefall power: reducing effective fall distance for the purposes of fall damage. Does it work for someone you carry when you fall?

Scenario 1: pick up extraction target, jump from 5th floor window, does extraction target die if you don't take damage? Scenario 2: Atomic Piledriver, as noted on the wiki

What about the reverse of these situations, where you are the one being jumped with?
All of these scenarios are up to the GM depending on the specifics of the scenario, with the recommendation that the powers probably shouldn't work if the adept is the one being carried.Rules Thread VII
MagicKinesics and the Con skill. Kinesics is used to "resist Social Tests and tests to read your emotions like Judge Intentions, assensing, or truthfulness tests." (Core, 310) This sounds like it could be used for both Con and Counter-Con: Con is resisting a truthfulness test (e.g., the Counter-Con test), while Counter-Con is resisting a Social Test (the Con test, since you're not the person who initiated that test). However, the description only references control over your own body's subconscious cues, which would imply it might not work for Counter-Con. Does Kinesics work on Con, Counter-Con, or both?Catalyst is bad at fluff. Kinesics applies to the counter-con test, since that is resisting a social test, rather than effectively all con tests. Also helps with composure to resist judge intentions, however.Rules Thread VII
MagicCan great form spirits with the endowment power give astral form?The endowment power may not be used to bestow any of the following abilities:

Astral Form Materialization Possession Inhabitation (If you somehow have a spirit that can endow it.) Endowment Sapience Energy Drain

Skills (Specifically, when skills are selected powers.)
Rules Thread VII
AugmentationDoes the Mnemonic Enhancer bioware add to the limit set by a language for particular social skills? For example, would a person with 6 ranks in Negotiate, 3 ranks in French, and R3 Mnemonic Enhancers be able to use all 6 ranks of their Negotiate skill when speaking French?They do not. They apply a dice pool bonus, they do not alter the rating of the skill.Rules Thread VII
MagicLet's talk about punch adepts and how they interact with implants.

Punch adepts seem to use a few different approaches: raw punching power, bone lacing/density augmented punches, cyber implant weapons and natural weapons. As I eagerly await the completion and approval of The Orichalcum Fister, my troll punchdept with weapon focus jackhammers for arms, bio-claws on his feet and a trusty sidekick companion drone who feeds him and opens doors and such, I would like to consider the interaction of the following powers with a few example augs: cyberspurs, cybernetic fangs, bioclaws and striking calluses. -Killing Hands -Penetrating Strike -Smashing Blow -Any other powers you think might have varying applicability Thanks!

p.s. what are the stats for weapon focus orichalcum bone lacing?
Cyberweapons and bioweapons are distinct in that cyberweapons can be turned into weapon foci, while bioweapons cannot. Since bioweapons, additionally (in general) use the natural weapons spec, it has been decided that they function with the majority of unarmed combat adept powers, while cyberweapons, will not.

If a power needs to be used with unarmed combat, such as smashing blow, penetrating strike, killing hands, or similar, it can be also used with bio-weapons, such as striking callus', or bone spurs. These powers can also be used with bone lacing, or bone density augmentation.

Cyberweapons cannot be used with these powers, but they, instead, can be made into weapon foci, and used with any powers requiring a weapon focus, such as elemental strike.
Rules Thread VII
WeaponsWhen it comes to underbarrel weapons, do they recieve accuracy and dice pool bonuses from smartlink and personalized grip on the main weapon?

Also, can underbarrel weapons be modified with for example; extended magazines?

Furthermore there exists no seperate stats for the underbarrel grenade launcher or grapple gun, and their price is listed as simply 3500/600 nuyen respectively. However both the underbarrel chainsaw and flamethrower, work in the manner of having you pay the price of an appropriate weapon + an additional cost for the mod itself for example 2200 + 200 for an underbarrel Shiawase Blazer. Given this example is it safe to assume that the grenade launcher and grapple gun are meant to be handled the same way?
Underbarrel weapons can't be modded themselves, but they can make use of the main weapons modifications/accessories, unless they can't be used on the type of underbarrel weapon you have (IE: A suppressor on your assault rifle doesn't suppress your underbarrel shotgun, since shotguns can't be suppressed.)

An unspecified underbarrel grenade launcher will have the following attributes Magazine size & type 6(c) Rate of fire SS Accuracy 4

And an underbarrel grapple gun will just be a standard grapple gun from p450 of the CRB
Rules Thread VII
MagicHow does teamworking a(n extended) test in Greater Rolling work?

Particularly teamworking Arcana with the Ally Spirit in order to initiate.

Do you roll once for teamwork and then the person that does the thing keeps subtracting one, or does the team have to roll for teamwork between every interval?
When teamworking an extended test, teamwork should be rolled between each interval. (GM's may wish to take just the one roll for all the extended tests, however, to save time.) The teamworker must be present for all the time the test is being worked on.

I can't think of any reason that you couldn't teamwork an initiation, and an ally spirit helping its mentor initiate seems fitting. If you're teamworking in the greater rolling thread, just have rollbot roll it all out under one post.

You can only teamwork in the rolling thread with things listed on your sheet (Such a spirits, or drones.) So unfortunately no teamworking other players.
Rules Thread VII
MagicWhat happens when you Knock Down a Levitating target? What happens to a spirit that isn't levitating, but can vaguely float whenever it wants as per their description? Is the Knock Down called shot different from the effects of Bolas in either case?A levitating, or otherwise floating target, which is knocked down, still suffers all the effects of being prone, even if they don't fall out of the sky. This means that they suffer any relevant modifiers, and must make a body+willpower (2) test to act normally again. Could be viewed as spinning in place, or knocked off balance, or whatever.Rules Thread VII
ContactsSo the quality Dealer connection. Does that apply before, or after modifications has been made to the thing in question?Dealer Connection does not include modificationsRules Thread VII
MagicWith ally spirits it not very clear whether or not you can take great form spirits powers. So my question is can you? "Each ally also receives one additional power per point of Force, chosen from any powers of spirits appropriate to the conjurer’s tradition."Ally spirits cannot take great form spirit powers.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationBioware Prehensile Tail. How does it work? For the record.The bioware prehensile tail will function similar to the SURGE functional prehensile tail, from p115 of Run Faster.Rules Thread VII
QualityReal Question this time. If you get Ex-Con the quality which comes with The Criminal Sinner Quality for free, are you required to pay off both, or do you only need to pay off Ex-Con?You can pay off the difference between the cost of the two qualities, multiplied by 2, as if you were purchasing off a rating of a quality with a rating. In the case of ex-con to criminal SINner, this would cost 10 karma.Rules Thread VII
RiggingCan we get a 3rd look at the vehicle armor ruling? https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/4sdl37/rules_thread_iv/d5zwsgg/ I think it is wrong.After looking into this again, taking into account some additional sources, such as p173's definition of modified damage value (Add the attacker’s net hits to the Damage Value of the weapon to determine the modified Damage Value.), it's been decided that the ruling will be reversed.

Attacks against vehicles should be resolved as follows: Net hits on the attack test are added to the weapons base damage, and compared to the remaining armour of the vehicle (After armour penetration.) If the modified DV is both physical (Or electrical, which is always physical against vehicles.), and more than/equal to the adjusted armour, roll the vehicles body + remaining armour, then subtract successes on this test from the modified DV, and apply the final DV to the vehicles condition monitor.

This process can be simplified by saying that vehicles do not take stun damage, as any scenario in which a metahuman would convert damage from physical to stun via armour, the vehicle would instead simply ignore it.
Rules Thread VII
RiggingDrones that come with autosofts (Horizon CU3 and Ares Bumblebee come to mind).

Do these autosofts count towards the limit of DR/2 that can run on the drones themselves?

Are these autosofts overridden by those run on an RCC like normal?
Similar to integral mods, these integrated autosofts don't take up slots on the drone they're built into. However, they are overridden by autosofts on an RCC, similar to standard autosofts running on a drone.Rules Thread VII
MagicCan you turn off Energy Aura, specifically on muh ally spirit?Energy aura on an ally spirit cannot be switched off, but that isn't necessarily crippling, since it only applies when the creature makes a melee attack, or is, itself, melee attacked.Rules Thread VII
MagicWhat happens to an attuned weapon in a BGCAttuned weapons in a BGC take the usual background count penalties to the dice pool of any skill tests involving them, but don't switch off at any point, because they don't have a force.Rules Thread VII
CombatIf you apply a skill such as Gymnastics or Perception to Full Defense tests with Acrobatic/Perceptive Defender, it applies the relevant limit for that skill. If you then have a quality or equipment that increases the limit specifically for that skill, such as Practice Practice Practice, Vision Enhancement, or Cyberlimb Optimization, would that also apply to the skill-based Full Defense tests? (Question also applies to Dodge/Parry/Block)General limit modifiers apply to full defence using perceptive/acrobatic defender (IE: Attention coprocessors limit boost applies, since it's general, but vision enhancements does not, since it's specific to visual perception tests.)Rules Thread VII
MagicDoes Adrenaline Surge work for all initiative types, or just meatspace? Can a decker, rigger or astral combatant benefit from the quality? (same question for Adrenaline Boost too, I guess)Adrenaline surge applies to every form of initiative. Adrenaline boost only applies to astral & physical initiatives, due to matrix initiative essentially replacing your initiative, rather than augmenting it.Rules Thread VII
RiggingCan the Weapon Mounts that come built in with certain vehicles be modified. For example the Dodge Charger or the BMW Interceptor.Integrated weapon mounts can be modified, as in, they can be changed to different arc types (Flexible, turret, fixed), control types (Remote, control, armoured control), or concealment (External. internal. concealed.) with the appropriate availability roll, price paid, and paying the difference in mod slots (Only if it's positive, unfortunately, you cannot gain mod-slots from this procedure, since the integrated ones didn't cost any in the first place.) You cannot, however, change the base mount type itself (Light, standard, heavy.) since that's the base integrated into the vehicle, on which all the other modifications are applied.Rules Thread VII
CombatSuppression apply to Defense Tests?Suppressive fire does not apply to defence tests.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationCan I just add a essence hole to a character in gen? Say they had a lot more ware at a certain time but it got taken out/repossessed?You may add an essence hole to a character in gen if you so choose.Rules Thread VII
Riggingbumblebee is illegal ?The F-B Bumblebee will be approved for use on the 'net.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationSo for the chameleon possessor upgrade for skin toner in chrome flesh on page 74, does it count as R4 RPC? Or a chameleon suit?Skin toner with a chameleon processor functions as ruthenium polymer coating rating 4 (p86, R&G), including the rules for coverage (In this case, how much skin is exposed.) Additionally, if you're wearing very little (Clothing can't have an armour rating, but can have underwear for modesty reasons.), it also functions as a chameleon suit. (p437, CRB) including wireless bonus.Rules Thread VII
MedicineDetox is for toxins only and no drugs or? Because it talks about drugs in the fluff.Detox can be used to mitigate the non damage or permanent crash effects of drugs (Such as disorientation, but not the unresisted stun from kamikaze, or the permanent berserk of K-10), if cast at a force equal to their addiction rating. They do not, however, cause you to ignore the negative effects of a drug that is currently in effect, or end the drugs effect early, simply reduce the additional effects of a crash the user is suffering at the time of casting.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationRun n gun says gyromount can't mix with fore grip, slings n some other stuff. If I've got a gyromount in my cyber arm does that still stop me from using those things?A cyberarm gyromount will count as a standard gyromount for purposes of recoil compensation stacking, meaning it does not stack with recoil compensation from any of the following:

'Bipod, foregrip, tripod, sling, underbarrel weight'

You can still have them on your gun, you just can only benefit from any of them, or the gyromount, at any one time.
Rules Thread VII
MagicWicca: If a Gardnerian Wicca performs a ritual with a Goddess Wicca, is there a penalty for cross-tradition ritual casting?There is not, they're both members of the Wiccan tradition outlined on p51 of SGRules Thread VII
CritterAnimal Control (Vermin),

What all does that entail? Some critters can manipulate other critters, particularly (but not always) mundane ones. This power lets the critters control the behavior of an animal or a group of animals. Vermin is used to refer to a wide scope of creatures, including Rodents and Various insects such as locusts, roaches, and fleas. Those ones are Vermin without doubt, but some other things are also called Vermin. I mean this guy asks the same question for insurance purposes in this, "What is a 'Vermin'?" I'd love to hear a final word on this eventually, but I figured I'd post a short article written on it. Near the end there is a Court Case on the Subject stating, "in the case of Ben Har Holding Corp. v. Fox, 263 N.Y.S. 695 (1933), the court found that bedbugs, cockroaches, water bugs, and red ants, along with noxious little animals or insects, collectively, as squirrels, rats, mice, worms, flies, bugs, etc. were vermin. The subject of this case, crickets, were found not to be vermin." The official Definition of Vermin is, noun, plural vermin. 1.noxious, objectionable, or disgusting animals collectively, especially those of small size that appear commonly and are difficult to control, as flies, lice, bedbugs, cockroaches, mice, and rats. 2.an objectionable or obnoxious person, or such persons collectively. 3.animals that prey upon game, as coyotes or weasels. So, you could allow individual GM's to decide this sort of thing, but I believe that you should at least answer a few questions definitively. Namely, Does the "Animal Control (Vermin)" power affect Mutant and Paranormal Vermin? (Devil Rat, Demon Rat, Glow Rat)

What are, if any, the definite "No's" IE: Nothing bigger than X or No Birds.
Animals from Howling Shadows, or the CRB that qualify as vermin:

Rat Cockroack Crow Devil Rat Demon Rat Glow Rat Digit Nezumi Rook Additionally, certain animals that aren't stated out in the books, such as pigeons, worms, flies, mites (And other small insects along these lines.) may be considered vulnerable to animal control (vermin). If a GM is using a custom magical/techno version of the previously mentioned creatures, it's recommended that they be vulnerable to animal control, unless sapient. If future versions of these animals are printed, consider them grandfathered in unless otherwise stated.

It's also worth remembering that controlling small animals like bugs and rats only lets you control a number of individuals equal to charisma times 5, and that it imparts no special ability to understand the animals or see through their eyes. So you can't use a swarm of flies to scout.
Rules Thread VII
AugmentationIf one got the bioware tail mod, is it one tail? Or can one fluff it to be multiple? How would that work?The bioware tail (If prehensile) has effects similar to the prehensile functional tail, from p115 of Run Faster. Cosmetically, it can styled as any tail found in the natural world, up to the user, I'm not going to make a list of what it can be, or anything like that. You could certainly buy multiple, if you so chose, but the mechanical effects would be the same, regardless of cosmetics.Rules Thread VII
WeaponsSo smoke grenades, how hefty of a visibility mod do they apply? -6? -3? None at all?

Also, I noticed that the big clarification doc had this line in it about how visual mods don't apply to astral perception. Is that right? Seems weird that stuff like range wouldn't apply Astral perception.

Finally, how the fuck does Mystic Armor interact with BGCs?
Smoke grenades apply a -6 modifier for heavy smoke.

This modifier applies to astral perception. Range can also apply to astral perception, at GM discretion.

Background counts apply to all skill tests that make use of any magical ability. This means that it wouldn't apply to soak tests, or defence tests, that rely on mystic armour, or combat sense.
Rules Thread VII
ArmorDoes Granite Shell give 2 automatic hits when wearing armor no matter what? Or does it count as Hardened armor, therefore being negated by AP-2? RF 113 Dermal AlterationGranite shell effectively converts 4 of your existing armour into hardened armour, if you're already wearing armour, which will be affected by AP before regular armour, so -2 AP will cancel one of the automatic hits, -4 AP will cancel the second one.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationYes hello is Select Sound Filter 6 and Ultrasound a thing for Improved Sense?Ultrasound can be taken, as established via previous rulings. Select sound filter at rating 6 can also be taken, and functions as the cyberware, with the exception that it cannot be used to transfer recorded (recorded in this sense meaning, sounds you remember.) sounds to other devices, since it's neither a device, nor has wireless capability.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationHow much would a case mod for cybereyes that acts like a rounded LCD display cost?Up to you, within the range of 50-10000nY offered by casemods. It'd be a lot of work to put a price on every casemod anybody asks for.Rules Thread VII
QualityWhen blighted says all Physical actions. Does that mean physical actions as in everything you do with your body, mental or not. So the only way to not get a penalty from it would be to be in the matrix or astral. OR does it mean that all physical skills get the reduction?The penalty applies to all actions taken that involve a physical attribute (Body, reaction, agility, strength.)Rules Thread VII
MagicIf no, what happens if an ally spirit has multiple energy aura powers?An ally spirit cannot be given more than one copy of energy aura.Rules Thread VII
MagicCan you Great Form another Mage's Bound Spirit? Assuming they were willing.You can only great form your own (The ritual leaders) bound spirits.Rules Thread VII
MagicIf a Mage with a possession tradition were to have a spirit possess an object that was a melee weapon could the Mage cash in a favor to get the spirit to use Elemntal Aura and in turn get an Elemental weapon that does an extra Fx2 [Element] damage? I would assume the caster would also take the elemental damage because he would be holding the weapon, but if it is an amount you could reliably soak would this be possible?If a Mage with a possession tradition were to have a spirit possess an object that was a melee weapon could the Mage cash in a favor to get the spirit to use Elemntal Aura and in turn get an Elemental weapon that does an extra Fx2 [Element] damage? I would assume the caster would also take the elemental damage because he would be holding the weapon, but if it is an amount you could reliably soak would this be possible?Rules Thread VII
MatrixIf a Spirit has Realistic Form, and takes the form of a metahuman, can it use Trodes/image link/etc. to interact with AR and Matrix stuff? If not, what if it's an Ally Spirit and it has the Computer Skill and/or has the Spell Anaylze Device in addition to the above?Spirits with access to technical skills, like task and ally spirits, are more capable than most in interacting with augmented reality. They can operate a commlink, make calls, paint a digital picture, program a persona, look up information, delete your browsing history as a last request, and schedule that doctor's appointment to get that thing looked at. However the matrix is still a realm they can't fully understand, even if they can interact with it more smoothly than most. As such they are unable to use skills such as computer, hacking, ewar, software, and cybercombat to hack or alter devices. Their capabilities are essentially limited to functions most general users are capable of, that don't require in depth knowledge of the matrix. Also, considering spirits are lacking the N in DNI, they are incapable of using any form of simsense or DNI.Rules Thread VII
MagicWhen you learn Invocation (let's say Ally Conjuration Ritual), what do you actually need to do to learn Great Form Binding? Because it's been explained to me and a couple people in different ways, and Street Grimoire seems to provide different answers. Thanks, SG. You abomination.

So do you: Pay 5 Karma and learn the Ritual? Pay Initiation Cost once more without initiating? Actually initiate again for Great Form Binding? None of the above and instead something else?

Get tank liminal body with skimmers and blow up the universe?
Once you have the Invocation Art, you simply need to spend 5 karma & purchase one ritual formula (Same price/avail as combat formula.) to learn great form binding, like any other ritual.Rules Thread VII
CritterWould both Mundane and Awakened Raccoons (Bandits) get the full +6 for Animal Handling tests with Raccoon Tailored Critter Pheromones? Oh, probably toss the Emerged Raccoons in there as well. I think she'd like one of those eventually.Mundane raccoons, and libertines (Techno-raccoons) both get the full +6 to animal handling checks, since they're essentially the same thing, physically. Bandits are very different, physically, and as such, would only receive the effect for closely related species, at +3.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationDo you get the smartgun dice if you use a datajack instead of wireless? Do you get the smartgun dice if you go wireless with an internal router?Simply using a datajack is not enough to grant access to wireless bonus. It must be combined with an internal router, to provide access without actually having your wireless on.

Internal Routers will provide access to all of the wireless bonus' where the mechanical effects do not require access to an outside network. For example, while the smartlink dicepool bonus thematically represents access to weather data and extra processing power, the mechanical effect of +2 dice to shoot your weapon does not require wireless to exist, and thus this effect functions. Other examples of functioning bonuses include most dicepool bonuses from cyberware, perception bonuses from vision and hearing devices, and bonuses to how small an action it takes to utilize a device, such as upgrading the time it takes to extend a baton or seal a chemsuit. However, an internal router will not allows you to make commcalls to people you are not directly connected to, make matrix searches, utilize skillsoft networks, or anything else that has a mechanical effect that requires access to an outside network, as these mechanical effects cannot possibly exist without access to outside data.

Due to the breadth of wireless bonus' in the game, making an extensive list of what does and does not work is not feasible, but consider the default answer to be yes, unless the actual effect of the bonus explicitly would require wireless access to another device to exist.
Rules Thread VII
WeaponsSo uhhh something I've been wondering about bc I've never actually seen someone use it, is how the motion sense trigger for explosives is apparently suppose to work. Pages 181 and 182 says that they use a standard ranged attack test not the normal threshold 3 test. This would explain why the various grenade/missile launchers have accuracy ratings if this was how it worked. Are we doing it this way or no? Secondarily, if this is how they work how does Run For Your Life fit into it? I can't really image you can run from an explosive that's actually touching you.If somebody uses a grenade/rocket on motion sensor trigger, they may fire it directly at somebody using standard ranged attack rules (Weapon skill + agility + modifiers [accuracy] vs. ranged defence.) rather than the normal AoE attack rules of ranged attack with a threshold of 3. If they acheive net hits over the subjects defence, the subject may not run for their lives, as they have been hit with a ranged attack that happens to have an AoE, rather than specifically an AoE attack. On a tie, or miss, the subject can run for their lives as normal, and scatter is rolled by the firer. Others who happen to be in the area of effect may run for their lives as normal.Rules Thread VII
SocialWould enthralling performance help in hiding your palming when for example shuffling a deck in your favor, flipping a coin in your favor etcSince those are countered by perception tests, yes, it would.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationIf you nerve strike an FBR, does it reduce the cyberlimb average or the meat stats?Nerve strike on characters with cyberlimbs affects their average agility (If agility is being targeted) rather than their meat agility.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationDo custom implant cyberguns have the same detection-resistant properties baked into them as regular cyberguns? Looking at p458 SR5 core.They do.Rules Thread VII
QualityNow that with the new errata approved you can wear heavy UV treated clothing to reduce the sunlight allergy on infected, can you do so with Nocturna?To a minimum of Mild, yes.Rules Thread VII
MagicLet's do the Time Warp again! Does Extended Masking cover your Astral Signature that is on your Summoned/Bound Spirits?Extended masking covers:

'anchored, sustained, or quickened spells; imbued or attuned items; or alchemical preparations that are in the magician’s possession.' (p149, SG)

Spirits are not included in the aforementioned list.
Rules Thread VII
MagcinCan you use the various adept powers that buff unarmed strikes while shapechanged? how does this interact with natural unarmed weapons, or natural weapons like the elphant's tusks that use Clubs?Yes, as per this: https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/64v9da/rules_thread_vii/dgwn1ut/

Natural weapons will count as unarmed attacks. Additionally, natural weapons always use unarmed combat, unless otherwise stated (Generally exotic weapon skills for ranged natural weapons.)

I have no earthly idea why elephants have the clubs skill.
Rules Thread VII
AugmentationDoes the smartlink or targeting laser interfere with the cateye's bioware? If so, why? By raw it seems it might, but it doesn't make much sense.I couldn't begin to make sense of why catalyst says they aren't compatible, but they make it pretty clear that they aren't, so, unfortunately, they aren't.Rules Thread VII
MagicThis is a post from the rules thread that died of old age.

Corollary, could a blind mage use Astral Perception to cast physical spells? (The RAW text states that "auras alone don't give you the mystic link you need to target spells", though that was in the context of projecting, not simply assensing.) This, the latter part of the original post is specifically what I'm curious about since it just got brought up again in general chat.

Is the text quoted above specific to projection or does it apply in general terms?
Line of sight can be established via natural vision, including vision augmentations paid for with essence (Such as thermographic, or low-light, not including ultrasound, radar, or other non-visual sense augmentations.) Individuals who are duel natured + astrally perceiving can cast physical LoS requriing spells on individuals they can see, with a -2 dice pool modifier, for taking an action in the physical world, while astrally perceiving. Characters who are astrally projecting, or in purely astral form, cannot use this to cast physical spells, or spells with physical targets, while astral.Rules Thread VII
MagicDoes the Reinforce Spell and Spirit Power work on worn Armor? Does it work on vehicles? It gives bonuses to structure rating as well, which would imply that it's meant for barriers, but it also states that it affects 'an object' and does not outright discount that it does not affect worn Armor or Vehicles.The reinforce spell and spirit power applies to barriers and only barriers, not vehicles, nor worn armour. The same goes for the possession power, which does not increase the armour rating of, for example, an armour jacket, if you were to tell it to possess thatRules Thread VII
AugmentationSo what exactly happens when/if you get a slow-drip chemical gland removed? Do you suffer crash? And if so, for how long? Duration equal to the entire time you had the gland? Or just the duration of a doseage of the drug that was in said gland?If a duration for the crash after removal of a chemical gland is needed, consider it to be the duration of the crash of a single unit of the drug involved.Rules Thread VII
MagicDoes flux give you a bonus dicepool equal to IG grade to the charisma plus magic test to sleaze through *mana barriers? Or if that is not the case does it do anything else relevant for passing *mana barriers? http://imgur.com/a/p5kD3 screen shot of relevant info.Flux does not assist with the test to pass through a manabarrierRules Thread VII
MagicWhat occurs when a Sasquatch burns out(loses all their Magic rating)? They do not have the Sapience quality which says a critter has gained sapience via magic, but they do have a magic rating and the dual natured critter power.If a metasapient burns out completely, they become mundane, losing dual natured, along with any other magical powers, aside from sapience. In the case of a sasquatch specifically, for example, they would lose mimicry.Rules Thread VII
AugmentationSo I have a few questions:

Can you combine Cybereyes with Tetrachromatic? I find it kinda weird that it's assumed the better eyes are worse at seeing things.

What kind of mounts can melee weapons take? I find it kinda weird that you can't add Chameleon Coating to your melee weapons so you can have your fat Barrett stealth along with your Sleeping Tiger but not your Katana?
Cybereyes can be combined with tetrachromatic vision, since they don't specify any conflict, it's very simple to view cybereyes as just being adapted to take in that type of light now your optic nerve can handle it.Rules Thread VII
MatrixWould like to point out that the Realistic Form description goes so far as to say spirit toaster could plug into the wall and toast toast. So I actually would expect a realistic form metahuman to have the "N in DNI" and could use trodes fine.That same sentence of realistic form specifies '(though it would have no Matrix link, making it an antique toaster)' (p198, SG), and this, along with the section in possession stating 'Possession does not allow the spirit to operate AR or cybernetic interfaces' (p197, SG) indicates to us if even spirits possessing an individual with trodes/datajack, or the like, cannot use it, then neither can a spirit with realistic form.Rules Thread VII

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