Rules Thread XII

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TopicQuestionAnswerThread
ResonanceDoes Redundancy (P.58 Data Trails) give stun boxes to Technomancers? As their stun tract is their Matrix Damage Tract (a power similar to this, Sacrifice, heals the Technomancers stun track to full. I know it's not an approved book yet, but it shows Catalyst supports the idea of Matrix Condition Tract affecting stuff also applies to their stun tract.)"You don’t have a separate Matrix Condition Monitor. Instead, any boxes of Matrix damage you would take hit you directly as Stun damage." CRB 251 Please feel free to reask question 3 after (or during) the approvals from Kill Code, also be aware that until Kill Code has gone through approvals no rulings from Kill Code will affect current rulings.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationI may or may not have made a mistake and gotten the induction connector thingie on an implanted Cyberdeck without really thinking about it. Can I 'lay-on-hands' to get the magic electronic touch and get the connection as if I was holding the deck in my hands or am I gonna be headbutting a lot of drywall in the future?Technically the latter, but "you’ve got a deck in your body." is the text for the implant, technically its headware but feel free to fluff it how you want. GM has final say tho.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan you put a datatap into a fingertip compartmentThe Data Tap is considered to have a conceal-ability modifier similar to a commlink (-4). The fingertip compartment can conceal items with a conceal-ability modifier of -6, therefore cannot fit a commlink.Rules Thread XII
MatrixThreading cuz might as well: Can you perform reckless hacking without having sleaze or attack(so just on actions that dont use either)For now Reckless Hacking is only usable with actions Actions with Sleaze or Attack as their LIMIT. This is subject to change in Wave 2 approvals.Rules Thread XII
MagicIs there a sustaining range for touch health spells or do I simply need to touch the target and it is sustained for however long I hold it regardless of distanceBased on the ruling here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/50iecj/rules_thread_v/d9fut6p/ And 281 CRB mentions clearly what is needed to cast the spell but not what it neaded to sustaining the spells. 294 CRB states in the sustained powers for critters. "As with sustained spells, line of sight does not have to be maintained after the power takes hold of its target." This implies that once the spell has been cast using the correct method (LoS, touch, ect) that it can be sustained without maintaining touch or LoS. as for distance it is not mentioned a good rule of thumb would be Magic*100 meters but ultimately up to the GM.

Be aware of BGC, Barriers, ect.
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan Chameleon Processor and Skin Toner work with hair and/or full body fur?For simplicity, yes.Rules Thread XII
GearDo the Bates-Brown tactical combat boots (SL 131) count as additional armor? (E.g. ballistic mask or forearm guards)Nope they don't add to armor encumbrance.Rules Thread XII
TechnomancyHow does Hypermythesia interact with things such as Decaying Dissonance? The former negates glitches on memory tests, while the latter turns them into critical glitchesHyperthymesia.

"lets you ignore Memory Test glitches" Decaying Dissonance. "Any glitch on a Memory Test counts as a critical glitch."

The Hyperthymesia makes you ignore Glitches before they become critical glitches.
Rules Thread XII
QualityHow are we feeling about giving Metagenic Negatives the ability to be bought off as usual?

Also, how are we feeling about making surge weapons unarmed using the natural weapons specialty?

Put it through the usual channels if you have to!
Metagenic Negatives will not be available to be bought off for the time being please feel free to reask this question when the next rules head comes in. And for now YES you can use Unarmed and the Natrual Weapons Spec for MELEE Surge and natural weapons gained from Metatype, Metavarient, Metasapient, Infection and Dracomophis.Rules Thread XII
MagicHow do magic spells, drugs and augs stack?up to your augmax of +4Rules Thread XII
TechnomancyCan Sprites drive drones? The only way we think we've found would be to default pilot (so no aerospace Sprites), potentially with a second sprite (Machine) Diagnostic the vehicle to give the piloting sprite bonus dice. Answer may depend partly on the Diagnostics question in this thread.As sprites have no ranks in pilot, they cannot use diagnostics to assist themselves. They may default as long as they have the appropriate marks (or their compiler is the owner) by using the control device action. It is GM fiat if they have to make a test for basic actions a player wouldn't need to.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceIf a technomancer has a cyberarm with a smuggling compartment, and if they have skinlink, do they count as direct connected to devices inside the smuggling compartment?Ya know what? sure why not? :DRules Thread XII
TechnomancyDoes resonances link(echo) work with technocritter pets to see if they are in danger if need be.SureRules Thread XII
ResonanceCan you take an agent with the Resonant Program echo?Resonant Program lets you take a Common or Hacking Program (see Cyberprogram) an Agent is considered Software like an Autosoft and is considered is neither so no.Rules Thread XII
QualityAre we using this optional rule from page 158 of Chrome Flesh? "An exceedingly small number of individuals express these variant metahuman phenotypes naturally, with some phenotype being as rare as one in a billion. One phenotype adjustment can be taken as a Positive quality during character creation (with gamemster approval) with a Karma cost equal to the cost of the adjustment divided by 2,000 nuyen, rounded up + 3. As a natural mutation, this quality doesn’t affect your Essence."Go for it.Rules Thread XII
CombatHow do i "seat the barrel against a target" during combat using Remington 995? Could i simply do it whenever im close enough, or perhaps would some sort of touch-attack shenanigans be required?There is no associated mechanic. Close enough to touch will be enough, GM's are welcome to incur a standard (-4) called shot penalty if they like.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan anyone with Regeneration get Delta-grade augmentations?as of the new Vamp doc infected runners with Regeneration can accept Delta Augmentations post infection we will apply this rules to all cases of runner Regeneration powers.Rules Thread XII
MagicWhen a possession spirit possesses a drone does it use the Spirit's attributes, or does the spirit enhance the drones attributesUses the spirits attributes. Drones do not have the same attributes as spirits so they cannot be modified, only replaced.Rules Thread XII
QualityHow is Brand Loyalty handled when the fluff says that for every item a comparable item from a competitor likely exists?Use the standard piece of gear outlined in the books.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan steamers (page. 74 CF) hold things other than water?Fluff fluids yes perfumes, coloured liquids, vape juice so you can VN go nuts on your fluff. Can be used to self-administer inhalation vector drugs. the drug Dissipates too quickly to use on others.Rules Thread XII
Advancementas your learning a spell, can you train other things? like skills and so on?"While learning the spell, you must devote eight hours of each day to learning the spell, otherwise you fail and must start all over." Any left over time is free to do what you want with as long as you spend the 8 hours a day.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationWhat mods can be installed onto implanted custom cyberweapons? Basing of what the regular ones get, im assuming you could get most barrel mods at least?Cyberguns may only take modifications listed specifically for them (crb 458). However, weapons installed using the custom cybergun rules (cf 90) retain the mods they come standard withRules Thread XII
AugmentationIs Datajack -> Datajack+ covered by the upgrade rules? Can you have multiple D+ in the same way you can have multiple Datajacks?Sure. Yes you can have multiple D+ and they do stack.Rules Thread XII
WeaponAre the wireless bonuses of throwing knives and syringes exclusive to themselves? both do the same thing but my question is can I mix throwing knives and syringes and have their wireless bonuses apply to both types of projectile? Example: say I throw 4 throwing knives and one throwing syringe on my turn. Would I then receive a +4 bonus to either my next knife or syringe or would it be a +3 to my next knife and a +1 to my next syringe?Sure mix em up.Rules Thread XII
TechnomancyCan the editor complex form be allowed to crack files as mentioned in the quality Curiosity killed the cat?Yes but the +2 only applies to the Crack file test.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceThe Skinlink Echo has previously been ruled to give direct connection access to the TMs own augs. Does this mean the TM effectively has the functionality of an Internal Router (CF 84) if they have the Skinlink Echo? Internal Router: Using the body’s internal neural network as “wires,” the internal router allows the user’s cybernetics to communicate with one another as if they were wirelessly connected and, if expanded via a datajack or similar broadcast-enabled piece of cyberware, with the rest of the user’s gear. This allows the use of some wireless functionality, such as the quick-loading function of a smartgun or the engagement of a smuggling compartment, but not those that require an outside network or similar function, such as skillwire downloads.Effectively and now Officially Yes.Rules Thread XII
TechnomancyIs the Mathemagic echo (P.58 Data Trails) functionally a Math SPU?Based on this ruling from before no they will not be treated the same.

The bonus for Mathemagic "Mental Limit for math-intensive actions, such as encryption and decryption, by 2." doesn't really work because "Encryption" (Edit file) limit is Data Processing and "Decryption" (Crack file) is Attack. So Mathemagic will give +2 limit to "Crack File" actions and the action to protect Encrypt files from "Edit file" 239 CRB. "To protect a file, make a Simple Computer + Logic [Data Processing] test."

As well as functioning as a Math SPU on top of it.
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationDoes a gradual release chemical gland for oxygenated fleurocarbons kill you?

​ It shouldn't, as the dose refreshes after the last one is over. This is why you don't overdose on other drugs with a chemical gland, even if they have particularly long dose times such as red mescaline or Nitro, or hell, Zero. And presumably part of why Cereprax and Long Haul were banned, because you would basically kill yourself after the first 'cycle' as it were. ​ This is also why addiction is such an issue with the chemical gland, as you're never allotted time off of the drug, whenever the last dose ends the new one begins, causing another roll for addiction. ​

If its ruled that gradual release normally disperses the chemical over the course of a day, which is why the concerns of drug duration aren't a problem. Then I don't see why an Oxyfleuro gland couldn't disperse it over the course of a week.
Each does of the drug is administered after the end of the previous dose meaning you won't over dose on any drug inside of a gland by being on more than one dose at a time.

CLARIFICATIONS: for Addiction Test roll 1 a day for each day during a run you are on the drug for simplicity reasons. Also Assume that the Chemical Gland Produces a "Lifetime supply" ignoring statements about "The gland produces a single dose every twenty-four hours and can hold as many as four doses at once".

Ignore the ruling about "These compounds must be naturally occurring and not synthetic" because SR5 does not make a mechanical distinction between the two and relying on fluff is inaccurate to say the least.
Rules Thread XII
QualityHow does Immunization (164 CF) works? the line of text got cut off " For every dose administered past the first," there even a "," at the end, and does the net use the similar agent rule? (maybe it cuts the power of toxics down by half like similar agent but that just my two bits) what toxics would count as neurotoxins and other quick-acting compounds? (for Immunization )Immunization is banned on the NET probably because....of its lack of functionalityRules Thread XII
TechnomancyCurrent approvals require the refurb pi-tac owner to perform the repairs 'themselves'. Do summoned minions count as 'themselves' for allowable resources?

Specifically: Can a Task spirit with the Hardware skill fix a refurbished pi-tac owned by its summoner? Can a drone with Hardware skill and a toolkit (and presumably a drone arm) fix a refurbished pi-tac owned by its owner/operator/rigger? Can a Machine Sprite use its Hardware skill to repair a refurbished pi-tac for its compiler? Does it need thumbs, or can it use Hardware skill in general (much like it would presumably use Hardware to repair matrix damage on gear despite it being purely digital)?

I guess more formally, can a Machine Sprite use the Hardware Skill for all normal uses right out of the box, and it's a Catalyst "don't think about it too hard" kind of thing? And the same for other Sprite skills.
Yes a Task Spirit can, as can a drone with Hardware, as can a sprite. The test does not require a toolkit.Rules Thread XII
Gearhow many datachips can fit in a smuggling compartment?Lots.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/4lcb2a/rules_thread_iii/d4mwqjy/ Work it out, 50> though.

"Ranging in size from microscopic to slightly larger than a price tag" 440 CRB
Rules Thread XII
Weaponcan the osmium mace take the ceramic/plastisteel parts modification? asking due to the nature of the weapon, having a dense metal core is the entire point of its design.No, since the core of the weapon is metallic and the material itself in integral to the design of the weapon it cannot be hardened against MAD scanners.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceIs software still a logic linked skill when using it to thread a complex form?when threading a complex form software is Resonance based.Rules Thread XII
CombatCan nerve strike work with touch attacks? Something to note is that touch attacks dont benefit from net hits and nerve strike depends on net hits Can you call shots with touch attacks? If so does a called shot vitals increase the base damage done by shock weapons using a touch attack?Touch only-attacks as of Run and Gun state.

"Weapons such as the shock glove or baton can inflict damage during a touch-only attack. These attacks don’t benefit from net hits from the attack to increase Damage Value" This implies the effect of not counting net hits only applies to shock based weapons. And seeing as touch attack is just a modifier to a normal attack you can combine it with a called shot. Be aware of a previous ruling here https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/784z58/rules_thread_x/dqkw03a/ So to reiterate CSV+Touch fine. CSV+Shock fine. CSV+Touch+Shock fine. Nervestrike+Touch fine. Shock+Touch no net hits.

Nervestrike+CSV, CSV has no effect.
Rules Thread XII
TechnomancyDoes a device need to be providing a die pool bonus to a character before a use of the Diagnostics power on that device can aid them via Teamwork?

eg, Bob the Street Sam is using his Praetor submachine gun to shoot at a bunch of horrifying mutant rats. Bill, his brother and friend, has sent a Sprite to aid him via his Wirelessly-on gun, using diagnostics to help him aim (either by bodging up a pseudosmartlink which Bob lacks otherwise, or even by directly controlling the fire rate of the gun to only 'shoot' when it is pointed at the enemy, $div.narrativereason). Does this use of Diagnostics pan out in Bob's favour? What about if it was on a Drone using its Sensor Suite to paint silhouettes of the enemy on otherwise-impenetrable smoke via virtual vision? Does the bonus granted by Diagnostics apply to multiple entities if the device in question is providing a significant bonus to multiple entities? eg, Brandon the Rigger is running his RCC out of the back of a van as his swarm of rotodrones cover the retreating rebel forces. Ben, his friend and brother, puts his hand on the RCC and goes into a trance, sending his Machine Sprite to aid Brandon in his desperate attempt to stop corporate forces from putting paid to the Soda Rebellion once and for all. Does this work out for Ben and Brandon? Or does only one Roto receive the bonus? If multiple Machine Sprites use Diagnostics on the same piece of gear, do their Diagnostics stack together up to the normal limit for Teamwork Tests? If not, what happens if multiple Machine Sprites use Diagnostics on different pieces of gear all pointing to the same check?

eg, Bertrand the Mage is trying to follow the trail of a serial killer using his Cybernose. Brent, his brother and friend, reaches out to touch his friend's nose, imparting the will of the resonance into the nasal organ. However, Brent lacks the raw power of Ben and Bill, and resorts to sending all his active sprites (machine sprites, as Brent only uses that type of sprite) to aid the function of his friend's cybernose. Does this work out for Brent and Bertrand? Would it be different if Brent sent one sprite to aid the nose, and one to aid Bertrand's Attention CoProcessor?
Does a device need to be providing a die pool bonus to a character before a use of the Diagnostics power on that device can aid them via Teamwork?

- Nope Diagnostics just helps people use the item Does the bonus granted by Diagnostics apply to multiple entities if the device in question is providing a significant bonus to multiple entities? - If multiple people are using the same piece of gear yes. If multiple Machine Sprites use Diagnostics on the same piece of gear, do their Diagnostics stack together up to the normal limit for Teamwork Tests? If not, what happens if multiple Machine Sprites use Diagnostics on different pieces of gear all pointing to the same check?

- Treat it as multiple Assistants on 1 test.
Rules Thread XII
DrugsAre we following the optional rules on page 53 of Chrome Flesh? could one consider the PAB unit itself an availability 14, 120K nuyen purchase? or does that priceline only apply for getting treatments from one, and the units themselves are not at all available for player characters to purchase, relying on GM fiat to allow their use?Because of the difficulty of defining which drugs effect which mental illness, for now we will not be using these rules. (Please feel free to ask this question again when we get a New rules head.) "The Proceedure" is AV 14 120k purchase 1 full reprogramming only is covered by the cost.Rules Thread XII
MatrixCan you use Control Device to shoot through multiple drones at once?"During his Action Phase, a character may take two Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action." (CRB 164) What constitutes an attack action is decided by your GM, but...actual attacks with weapons are definitely considered attacks.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceCould you use Resonance Channel (P.252 CRB) to bypass a Faraday cage? Could you use Resonance Channel to bypass noise created from things other than distance? (I don't see why a spam zone would affect the resonance/why you couldn't bypass the spam zone by going through the resonance channel for example)Faraday Cage does not add Noise it separates the inside of the cage from the outside of the cage Noise Reduction has no effect on a Faraday Cage. and while the answer is currently NO for resonance channel reducing noise from sources other then distance, please feel free to reask this question during or after Kill Code approvals.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationFor the sake of my sanity: Can you have Active Hardwires for skill X, and Reflex Recorder for skill Y at the same time? Them not stacking for the same skill is obvious, but i assume they should work just fine if they are for different things.yesRules Thread XII
AdeptCould an Adept pick up a foci with 'Memory Displacement', and then lose the foci, thus losing the memory?"Once the predetermined time has elapsed, the memory returns." this happens regardless of whether the power is on or off. This predetermined time for Sanity's sake can be no longer than a year and a day.Rules Thread XII
MagicCan one join an already existing magical group? I ask because apparently RAW makes it so you cannot join after one is formed, yet you obviously can join groups after they've formed from an in universe perspectiveThis question will be revisited when Kill Code comes out as the inclusion of Tribes will probably have an effect on this ruling.

So for now no.

Please feel free to reask this question when the new rules head comes in.
Rules Thread XII
MatrixDoes Analystical mind apply to matrix search(it's referenced in Brilliant Heuristics) Does the +2 apply to the matrix search if you have TDNLYes, but GM decides what searches analytical mind applies to.

Trust Data not Lore applies to the listed actions no matter what att they use This is subject to change in the 2nd wave of Kill Code approvals

Ninja edit: analytical mind stacks with TDNL at GM discretion
Rules Thread XII
CombatCan I throw looper rounds at cameras instead of shooting them out of a gun? It seems their effect is on impact so I am wondering if a throwing adept could just chuck oneThrowing bullets does not make them go off, GMs can allow you to make trick shots/called shots if they want.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceDoes the effects of the programs Shredder (DT56) and Nuke-from-Orbit (DT57) work with Editer CF(252 Core) Can you use Hitchhiker as a TM to take people in the Resonant Realms?Yes you can use either assuming you can access the programs and the CF at the same time (Eg. Resonance Program (Nuke from Orbit)).

Ninja Edit Yes you can use Hitchhiker as a TM with the Resonance Program page 116 in DT even explicitly calls out that it can be used and some of the interactions. Second Ninja Edit

As for the Resonance realms no a TM cannot bring someone else to the resonance well through anything other than a rift as of 162 DT
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationOcular drone: This enhancement only affects one eyeball per purchase. A small spyball drone is placed in your ocular cavity. The spyball functions as a normal cybereye (with all the relevant enhancements) until you remove it and control it as though it were a Horizon Flying Eye (p. 465). When it’s out and you have only one eye, you suffer a –3 dice pool penalty to all tasks. If you replace both eyes with drones, you’re effectively blind while those drones are operating apart from you. An ocular drone is obviously not available as a retinal modification. -3 to all tasks What about things that don't need sight? Like VR Decking, or VR Rigging, like into the eye especially? CRB 453RAW its clear, however GM's are encouraged to not include visual penalties on tasks which are not visual in natureRules Thread XII
AugmentationIf something has internal router, can you direct connect to all of their cyberware by connecting to an external piece of cyberware?Yes. Assume that all gear is directly connected and use the rules accordingly.Rules Thread XII
ContactCan you get a teacher contact for martial arts? Can you get a service, or teacher, contact to assist you in learning complex forms/spells?"Along with the standard rules for martial arts and specializations, ShadowNET also allows characters to work with their trainers to reduce this training time to one week. This training also costs 500¥."

This should require your trainer to be competent in the related skill associated with the Martial Art in question.

CFs and Spells are currently being discussed with Contact head.
Rules Thread XII
Augmentation"Can I have an oxygenated fluorocarbon gradual release gland. Y/N" important consideration, are oxygenated fluorocarbons "Naturally occurring and not synthetic"

"Will it kill me. Y/N" important consideration, see below Taking into account the way glands actually work (one dose is built every 24 hours) and that the dose is administered throughout the day as its built (as per the modification of the chemical gland. It at no point mentions that the time to build a dose of the drug is altered to be slower, faster, or meet the duration of the drug.) On day two, it is a brand new dose. An example is that plant analogy. I have a two liter water bottle for my plant, this will keep it watered for a week. I can give it all to my plant and wait for a week before before giving it another two litres.

Or, I can attach the water bottle to the water system, and make it drip. Meaning as it is filled from the reservoir it drips into the plant, and refills again, and continues to drip, effectively drowning the plant on day two.
Each does of the drug is administered after the end of the previous dose meaning you won't over dose on any drug inside of a gland by being on more than one dose at a time.

CLARIFICATIONS: for Addiction Test roll 1 a day for each day during a run you are on the drug for simplicity reasons. Also Assume that the Chemical Gland Produces a "Lifetime supply" ignoring statements about "The gland produces a single dose every twenty-four hours and can hold as many as four doses at once".

Ignore the ruling about "These compounds must be naturally occurring and not synthetic" because SR5 does not make a mechanical distinction between the two and relying on fluff is inaccurate to say the least.
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationIf you have a toxic in your spit (like from a chemical gland) can you spit on a melee weapon to poison it?SureRules Thread XII
TechnomancyWhat are the limits and behavior of the Sprite Power "Diagnostics"? CRB 257

The power states Teamwork test, but then does not mention limitations on the granted dice pool (unlike normal Teamwork, crb49). Teamwork: Requires a leader. Action time for the entire test is the same as the test being performed (teamwork on a simple is a simple, teamwork on a complex, is a complex. Yes?) Limit goes up by 1 for each assistant for the leader's roll. Leader's dice pool goes up by 1 for each assistant's hit on their check, with a limit of the leader's rank in the skill being helped. Diagnostics says Teamwork. Then says always a Simple Hardware+Level [Data Processing] test; if any hits are rolled, the character gets a +1 limit bonus, and each hit adds 1 die to the character's dice pool to use or repair the item. My read is that it is indeed not a standard teamwork test, and the sprite is adding a flat 'successes' to your pool. If you get a pool. Other threads have required the device to be Diagnostic'd must be wireless enabled, or directly connected to by the Technomancer who compiled the sprite (Skinlink, other direct-connect methods?). What is the correct read on how this power operates? Is its flavor of Teamwork compatible with normal Teamwork tests? Example: Machine sprite uses Diagnostics on a car. The user of the car now gets X dice to operate or repair it, regardless of the skill used. (X depends on the answers above, if it's limited by the driver, or only the sprite's ability to grant dice. Effect is on the car, so does switching drivers change the bonus? Can another person help them drive with a standard Teamwork test (which are capped by the leader's pilot ranks? Both?).

Can another mechanic help them repair the car (same as driving?)
It's a teamwork test so it adds the sprite’s hits to the users dicepool up to the person making the test’s ranks and +1 to the limit assuming at least 1 hit is scored by the sprite.

The sprite can use diagnostics on a device the compiler has a direct connection to as per a previous ruling, this includes datajack, data tap, or skinlink As long as the sprite/compiling techno can maintain a connection the power continues.

You may add as many people to the teamwork test as you like, but are always limited to ranks in extra dice
Rules Thread XII
MagicIf you cast mana net (114 Sg) on a physical target, do they use Strength + Body or Willpower + Charisma (or is Willpower + Charisma for astral targets only?)

There is the Physical keyword but no Mana Keyword, Physical key word is B+S so maybe it is Willpower + Charisma.

it the only Mana Keyword spells in the game and there never put the rules for them in.
Mana Bind and Mana Net can ONLY be cast on astral Targets. For Physical Targets you must use Bind or Net bind.Rules Thread XII
MagicWhen doing the nine paths ordeal do you use augmented stat or base statAugmentedRules Thread XII
ResonanceIf you use resonance riding, and you have Resonance Program echos, do you still have access to those programs?"the technomancer cannot use their Living Persona or benefit from any of the Living Persona’s attributes, or perform the Compile Sprite, Register Sprite, or Thread Complex Form actions. All other Resonance actions are available."

DT59

it does not call out Echo's, and seeing as you would have to be using an Echo to resonance ride, I'm going to say you can use Echo's while Riding.
Rules Thread XII
Augmentation"interesting thought with that....if one individual had a modular half arm with dynamic handprint on it (and the advanced synthskin just to make sure) would said individual be able to give it to a friend who also uses modular half arms on the same side so the second individual can get a specific handprint for the first one?" Asking on behalf of dawn-giant-dragonYes.Rules Thread XII
GearCan Zoe Second Skin be set to be transparent enough to gain the effects of things which require you to be naked, such as Skin Toner? (without stacking of any modifiers, of course, for the use of naked-ware only)Skin toner with Charmeleon Processor gives RPC 4 as does Second skin, both of these don't stack, you can however use Second Skin to see through to your skin.Rules Thread XII
AugmenationIf you have implant medic nanoware (cf 147) can you reprogram then to target a different piece of ware?Nope. (Feel free to reask this question when we get a new Rules head)Rules Thread XII
QualityDoes Brilliant Heuristics really halve the time for all Data Processing Matrix Actions? Or more precisely, does it affect anything other than Matrix Search? What determines a Data Processing action (limit is [Data Processing]? Something else?)?Brilliant Heuristics only halves the time for Matrix search actions. This is subject to change with coming Wave 2 approvals.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceAre resonance actions blocked by a Faraday cage?Faraday cages are poorly defined at best, (The word Faraday Cage only comes up 3 times in the CRB, 2 of those are part of the same table).

All we have to go on is "a Faraday cage used in select sections of the building can cut off access from the outside completely."

This seems like plot protection at best, assume that while inside a faraday you cannot access the outside matrix and while outside one you cannot access inside the Faraday Cage, this goes for Matrix and Resonance actions.
Rules Thread XII
TechnomancyIf you target a device with a sustained complex form or sustained power and it goes wireless off, does it still effect it? Can you "Control Device" a cyber limb and you can control device your own cyber limbs? edit got told to add Page 162 Hard Targets, the "Puppeteer" on limb control as a reference.If you lose connection to the device, your sustained CF or sprite power stops. You may use control device for simple things ((picking up objects, handshakes, walking, ect)), but anything that would require a roll ((shooting a gun, sprinting, throwing a grenade, picking s lock)) is still subject to the -10 penalty.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationWhat is required to reprogram hard nanites to another type? If I need my nanite hunters to do anti-rad duties, what do I do? Am I reprogramming the hive, and it scoops up the little guys and re-issues them, or reprogramming the nanites to do different things?For run purposes we will assume all it takes is a trip to a cyberdoc and about an hour of work for now because there are no mechanics for it.Rules Thread XII
MagicComplicated scenario: Mage has masking and extended masking. Illusions don't normally fool spirits at all (They're easily assensible as spell auras, for example, and are often in the wrong world).

Manascape (Shadow spells, p20): This spell is designed to pass illusions to the target’s magical senses. While it cannot create auras of astral images where none are present, it can change their appearance to anyone using Assensing, Psychometry, Sensing, or the Astral Window spell. False Impression only affects the image of a single spell or astral form, while Manascape changes the appearance of an area. Trid phantasm (CRB291) and Improved invisibility (CRB291) are both physical illusions. Could they be 'passed' to target senses to make illusions real enough to astral entities to have them make resistance checks or be fooled? Extended masking is added as an additional layer, since it can hide the spell being sustained as well (so there is no 'gosh, I can see that guy has an illusion spell-aura, I wonder what it is?' in play).

For that second example, would this be a long sought-after invis vs. spirits, if you can manage to pass both the Masking resist to assensing AND the 'is it a believable illusion' spell resist?
Improved Invisibility covers you for the meat world, Manascape/False Impressions covers the Astral realm, if you masking both of your sustained spells.

If all of the spells beat the Resist of the Target, the Target will not see you on either realm.

You might want to add Stealth to that too to hide your sound in meat-space.
Rules Thread XII
CombatDoes it still take a simple action to ready a cybergun?YesRules Thread XII
Combatapparently there a old Rules Thread from Fex on the fling spell where you don't use the force of the spell as the limit but the physical limit of the mage, this break so many things, like the rules of manipulation spells, the fact that I can cast the spell at force 1 and have the limit higher, That I can't use the spell if my physical limit goes to hell. Can we just get that fixed?Overruling previous ruling

Limit for using the fling spell for throwing anything, including a thrown weapon is the force of the spell or reagents spent, if any. Your magic is the str for the purposes of range and damage

Personalized grips do not increase the accuracy when using the fling spell on thrown weapons.
Rules Thread XII
MatrixFrom the KC Approvals Doc: “You can illegally change a device’s owner with a Hardware toolkit and a Hardware + Logic [Mental] (24,1 hour) Extended Test. Performing this test requires access to the Matrix; a glitch results in the authorities being notified.” (25 KC) Is it possible to put the device being tinkered with in a faraday cage and getting your matrix access from outside and connecting the two via cable so an angry owner won't come looking for you within the minute, or is the only way to safely steal an item by killing the owner first or other creative solutions?No, the device itself must be connected to the matrix. The entity that manages device ownership will not accept a change unless it can talk directly to the device being changed throughout the process.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceDoes the complex form Editor bypass encryption and/or data bombs? if you copy a file with it, do these things come along with it?Yes.

When a file is copied you become the new owner, as such you will have the passcode for the data bomb. And because of the lack of mechanics surrounding editing an encrypted file (because currently if a file is encrypted NOBODY can edit it even the owner, meaning that....every one who wants to edit a file better make sure they have a decker handy to unlock it for them.....) as a fix the ruling below will be in place.

The owner of a file can open the file as though it was not encrypted as can anyone else who the owner of the file gives access too.
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan you add normal weapon mods to custom cyberguns? (cf. 90) Can you shove guns you already own into a cyberarm?CYBER-IMPLANT WEAPONS

"Unless otherwise noted, the following weapons cannot accept accessories and use either the Unarmed Combat (Cyber-Implant Weaponry) skill if melee-based, or Exotic Weapon (the particular cyber-implant weapon) if ranged." CF 90 Be aware that . CYBERGUN MODIFICATION "Modification of a normal gun into a cyber-implant version costs are shown on the following chart, while Availability is increased by 4." CF 90 So you can still Smartlink the gun if you implant it (and it is a necessity).

As for slapping your own pre existing weapon into an arm it is fine you will still have to roll AV for the cyberlimb modifications to implant the weapon, also any modifications will be removed from the weapon upon implantation and a new "Smartgun System" will be installed if necessary.
Rules Thread XII
MagicDo you need a separate ritual for a possession version of a spirit, when using Calling? Or could you use Calling: guardian spirit, to cover both materialization and possessionBuying a spirit calling ritual spell, gives you access to any spirit including those the mage doesn't normally summon so the spell will be "Calling ritual "Wild Hunt" ".

Refer to the specific spirit you are calling to whether they are a possession or normal spirit and the spirit will appear as that. It mentions "Materialization" but ignore that in the case of possession spirits though a vessel should be prepared for them within the circle. Its ultimately up to GMs how the Calling ritual plays out (it being very fluffy and not crunchy at all) GMs might pick the spirits optional powers, make them appear possessed or materialized or what form they should take. Just be aware that ultimately Calling will be GM Fiat powered by design.

Please feel free to reask this question when we get a new rules head.
Rules Thread XII
Magicwhen your initiating do you round up or down, so like, at initiate grade 1 if i took an ordeal would it be 12 karma or 11 karma.round the cost down.Rules Thread XII
PowerMist Form (RF 133).. is this optional rule in effect? Are there any caveats on what can be carried with you/attempted to be turned to mist per the rule in Run Faster?As of your new doc yes players will be able to use this optional powerRules Thread XII
Technomancyusing the Cyberadept Daemon, is the 'resonance lost by cyberware' (KC: 90) a lifetime max or just a max per submersion?For now the max resonance that can be ever gotten back from the Cyberadept Daemon is 6. This is subject to change come Wave 2 approvals.Rules Thread XII
ContactQuestions about group contacts!

https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/8e7tju/rules_thread_xi/dzuvcgf/ based on this ruling they are currently morphing contacts that are set at the beginning of a run. So what are they in downtime? can they even be used during downtime?

Made Man give you a free group contact but does not specify what connection. So how the heck dose connection work with made man group contacts?
This holdover rule will be getting an update eventually we are working on it now.

For now we will assume that at the end of runs you can reset the contact and it will stay like that until next run.

For now connection functions the same for Group contacts as it does for regular contacts.
Rules Thread XII
Magicdoes that limit on AV for foci effect Artifcing?As of a council Ruling it does not if you can craft it you can keep it.Rules Thread XII
Resonancetwo questions for Resonance Signatures

1) do you need to have detected the persona (if they're running silent) in order to detect the resonance signature?

2) can you tell if an entity is dissonant from the signature?
"Other Resonance beings (technomancers, sprites, and ... others) can detect a Resonance signature by getting at least 3 hits on a Matrix Perception Test; noticing a signature comes in addition to the usual questions you get to ask."

This implies that you have to have spotted the icon if you get over 3 hits on this test to spot the persona in question on of your question (assuming you are a TM too) is "Can I get their Resonance Signature." follow rules for MPer as per 241 CRB. Ninja Edit There currently are no mechanics for spotting weather someone is dissonant or not as "dissonant technomancers still follow the basic rules of technomancers (see p.249, SR5)," 164 DT

GMs are encouraged to let Player characters ask the question and have it be answered with the same test as Spotting someones resonance signiture.
Rules Thread XII
AdeptCan an adept using Body Sculpt appear to have more arms to impersonate a nartaki? I was told yes, but the arms would be non functional. How non functional are we talking about?Shiva Arms provide the following effects.

"The character may hold and carry double the number of objects than normal. These so-called Shiva arms or Kali arms can be moved independently," "Characters with Shiva Arms can wield multiple weapons: firearms, melee weapons, or a combination of the two." "The character can use the Multiple Attacks Free Action (p. 164, SR5) with firearms in their extra hands," "Characters with the Shiva Arms quality suffer social stigma and modifiers (see Freaks sidebar, p. 123)." The power acts accordingly. "The Power does not allow the adept to mimic and express and changeling metagenetic traits. All of their attributes, skills, and powers remain unchanged; only their physical appearance is altered." As long as you use none of the abilities mentioned in the Shiva arms you can have them, this means the arms cannot act independently, hold objects or weapons, offer extra "Multiple attacks", or give you the "Freaks modifiers" (GMs however may choose to apply it).

Functionality wise, the arms are somewhat vestigial and will follow the "Main arms" movement, and cannot pick up objects on their own.
Rules Thread XII
Magicdoes the net use any of the optional, you not a flying critter but you can say use magic to fly so here are ways to count as having skill ranks for flying rules from page 38 FA?PCs may buy ranks in the Flight active skill for the same price as any other active skill and is linked to AGI PCs may roll any skill in the Athletics group or Pilot Aircraft + AGI in place of the flight skill with a -1 penalty to their pool.Rules Thread XII
GearCan you have the armor, unarmed damage boost, and famage to barehanded attackers benefits of smartskin (cf 151) all active at once?The extra Unarmed and Blades Damage is simply part of the Wireless bonus, as long as your as wireless on you can make use of this.

As for the Armor and Damage to attackers however are referred to as "A secondary smartskin setting changes the smart materials into microspines" with the armor bonus being "While active". So you must be active to make use of the "secondary smartskin setting" meaning that.

Yes you can make use of all 3 things at once.
Rules Thread XII
QualityTeam Player (KC 97) seems to imply that HotF and BF cannot be done as teamwork tests without the quality.

The quality does an excellent job of laying out how it works WITH the quality (and our approvals doc), as far as all participants getting mark(s) and OS. and that Sprites/Agents cannot participate with the Team Player variety. Previous practice at many ShadowNET tables had, at a minimum, Agents and Sprites performing Matrix Teamwork tests constantly. Including for mark granting. to the point that custom rulings limited how many could actually assist. Q: Can matrix tests use Teamwork Tests? Which ones? Can sprites/agents participate? Q: Can Agents/Sprites continue to assist marking tests, without/despite Team Player, so long as the Agent/Sprite gets OS but no marks themselves (making it worse than the Teamwork called out in Team Player)?

Q: Can other personas (not agents/sprites) do any of these things if sprites/agents can't? For the blue moon runs with more than one matrix operator?
Agents/sprites and leadership continue to apply, however without the quality another technomancer/decker cannot teamwork Hack in the Fly or Brute Force.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan you wear a synthskin mask over an obvious cyberskull to appear normal and can it be bulk modded?"Obvious cyberlimbs: These implants are immediately immediately recognizable as artificial limbs unless you cover them with clothing."

456 CRB

This would include Sythskin masks although GM's do get final say and can just say no (Though they are encouraged not to.).
Rules Thread XII
Combatcan we take a look at this rapid draw ruling from a year ago? What I am mainly asking for is a more clearly laid out post of exactly how rapid works with both firearms and melee weapons. I am mainly asking this because the old post had to be amended and is generally laid out in a way that is hard to read and mixed with an Iajutsu questionThe quick draw simple action, when used with the rapid-draw adept power, lets you make a test to ready and attack with any weapon that is holstered, secured via a sling, or held at a ‘low-ready’ position ((i.e. in hand but not raised)). Lajutsu is the same but only applies to melee weapons.Rules Thread XII
MagicGot in to a argument that anyone effect by Mental magic and breaking free from it.

I was told that any one was effect by Mental magic automatically gets the test and get a free Complex Action (meaning it does not taken a action) to break free even though they don't know they are under mind magic. My argument is that they only get the resistance test if they take the Complex Action to do it and why would people just take the action if they do not know if they being effect by Mental magic. "A victim of mental manipulation spell may roll to notice the magical effect according to the usual rules for Perceiving Magic" I believe that they need to notice the mental manipulation spell to take the action or maybe the mage try's to make them think something they would never think (like killing the guy who saved his life two times and get on well) As for "The one being controlled can take this action even if they wouldn’t get an action because of the spell.", Not all Mental magic force them to use their action, like Control thoughts can make a person like you but they get to pick how they act on that. The exception is Control action where I think they would get the action to try and break free as the spell is forcing the actions. ""the target may take a Complex Action on their turn to resist" I like to point out that they use the word "may" meaning the target to can choose not to resist (I don't see that happening unless like someone trying to kill them and they feel the need to take care of that 1st) So why would a person just stop what they are doing to try and break free of a spell they have no idea is there when they do have a spell on them.

Also do you use "the target may take a Complex Action on their turn to resist by making a Logic + Willpower Test with a dice pool penalty equal to the spell’s Force"penalty part here, i know missions and a few other place don't use this rule as High force mind magic can make it hard/impossible to break free.
"Mental: Targets resist these spells with Logic + Willpower. Keep track of your net hits, as they determine how long you can sustain the spell. While the spell is sustained, the target may take a Complex Action on their turn to resist by making a Logic + Willpower Test with a dice pool penalty equal to the spell’s Force; every hit the target gets reduces the caster’s net hits by 1. The one being controlled can take this action even if they wouldn’t get an action because of the spell. The spell ends when your net hits are reduced to zero. A victim of mental manipulation spell may roll to notice the magical effect according to the usual rules for Perceiving Magic (p. 280). Some of the less subtle mental spells (Control Actions) are pretty obvious, but more subtle spells (like Control Thoughts) can be pretty insidious."

Lets take Control Thoughts for instance. CRB 269 So the logic+willpower section is a resist to the spell being cast if the target wins this roll the effect of the spell lasts 0 passes this ALWAYS happens (GMs can decide the target will automatically fail if they choose, counting all of the casters hits as Net hits.). If the caster wins they get Net hit passes, every pass the person being controlled gets an action to resist reducing number of Net hits that the caster got and therefore the time that the effect lasts, this resist pool is (L+W) -force of the spell the target can choose not to do this roll but will ALWAYS have the option (GMs might chose for the Target to not resist) however force may reduce the resist pool to 0 and if so the Target doesn't have many options but to wait it out unless their pool gets above 0 (say with Magical Gaurd/counterspelling from a mage). as for noticing magic, at ANY point during the spell being cast, ANYONE can take a simple action using the rules for perceiving magic on 280 to try and work out who is casting, this includes the target, though there time is probably better spent breaking free. So order of operations is. Resist initial spellcasting (L+W vs Spellcasters pool) net hits determining length. If the result is greater then 0 then every pass the target can resist with (L+W)-F this can be 0 dicepool, hits from this resist reduce the net hits of the spellcaster. ANYONE nearby (as determined by GM) can spend a simple action to Percieve magic (280 CRB) including target. A GM can choose for the Target to Not resist because they are "Surprised" or "Unaware" that is up to the GM to make the Target auto fail.

I hope this answers your question.
Rules Thread XII
Augmentationif Narco would reduce dice you roll to determine how long you sleep by 4d6, or would you roll the dice and then halve the results?Half the result.Rules Thread XII
CombatVehicle ram is a melee attack. Can you riposte/counterstrike it?Counterstrike/Riposte is "Test against the opponent’s standard Attack Test." Vehicle tests such as ramming are vehicle test's treated as melee attacks and are not "Standard Attack Tests" so no you may not Riposte or Counterstrike.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationWhen using modular limbs, can you have the shoulder connectors at a grade higher than the limbs? Example, can we put standard limbs in alphaware sockets? Alpha limbs in used sockets? Etc Strength and agility "Flow Down" the arm in question, meaning if I have an "Obvious full limb" with customised to 6 agility/strength it goes into the attached modular lower limb. So say we then give that lower limb enhanced 3/3 strength/agility, does that give the full arm 9 agility/strength?Mod connectors must be the same rating as the limb,

https://www.reddit.com/r/shadownetwork/comments/4h3fhh/rules_thread_ii/d3bg465/

No the values don't add or split.
Rules Thread XII
MagicDoes the spirit power "Guard" protect against things like Radiation?Anything that would normally be covered by "Fatigue from Environment" (CRB 172) is covered, including radition fatigue damage. Each test avoided will eat up 1 service.Rules Thread XII
ResonanceDoes fading/drain count as a damage resistance test?Fading/Drain is not considered a damage resistance test and does not combine with ware/drugs ect that help with "Damage resistance test's" unless the text specifies drain/fading.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan I sell cultured bioware? Like say I no longer want my cerebral booster... for whatever reason, can I only throw it into the local trashcan? Or could I fence it to like... a ghoul or something like thatNo, unfortunately cultured bioware is individually tailored to each person and the resale value is close to 0.Rules Thread XII
AdvancementIf you have skill wires or Channeling, can you train your self with the Instruction skill?You cannot train yourself using instruction, instruction is from tutor to "student" if you are using the instruction skill you are not the "student".Rules Thread XII
TechnomancyTwo questions regarding a technomancers Echoes.

1: If a technomancer is affected by the shapechange spell, do they retain the ability to use their echoes? 2: how about their living persona

​I believe they should still have access to the abilities, if only because mages/adepts retain their abilities that don't rely on speech. And augments mostly carry over to the new form
Yes for both for simplicity sake.Rules Thread XII
WeaponSo out of curiosity due to the fact stated in the previous thread, stating that carbines have barrels, tops, side, and stock mods, what does that make for the carbines that have slide mounts (under) and various under barrel weapons? I can figure out the setting for the under barrel weapon, however in regards to the Colt M23-A2 what does that mean for the weapon? That the slide mount is useless or?Assume the M23-A2 has an additional under slot with "slide mount (under)" attachedRules Thread XII
TechnomancyWhen using Complex Form Overdrive on Reaction Enhancers plus Wired Reflexes, what happens? How does the increasing reaction work with their wireless bonuses?"Reaction from the two augmentations can be above +4 if both systems have wireless activated." As written this may be subject to change come Wave 2.Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan you swap out the nanites in your hard/soft nanohive?"Hard nanohives can use this communication to reprogram the nanite system it supports—its Rating is the number of different hard nanite systems to which it can convert its nanites"

151 CF "A soft nanohive supports a soft nanosystem, chosen at implanting." As clarification "Chosen at Implanting" is a permanent choice and cannot change by having the hive removed and reinstalled.

It sucks but while you can reprogram a Hard Nanohive you will have to get a new Soft Nanohive to get it to work with different Nanites.
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationWhat limbs do shifters have for the purposes of cyberlimbs? Would it be two arms and two legs, or four legs? And if the former, would it cost anything to be able to use thumbs and as forelegs for running?2 arms, 2 legs.Rules Thread XII
DrugDoes the disorient from Red Mescaline only apply for the first ten minutes of the drug?YupRules Thread XII
AugmentationSo by RAW there is no restriction to what can and cannot taken for cyberlimb optimisation which could include resonance or magical skills.

the current exsamples all lead to Physical skills, except for Preformance (social)

So where do we draw the line? is technical skills ok? can i take +2 while hacking and DNI'd? can I take cyberlimb optimisation Summoning?
You cannot optimize cyberlimbs for resonance, magic, or matrix actions. Reason being, if you're not using the limb, optimization probably isn't going to do anythingRules Thread XII
ToxinAs asked in the rules chat, can the "Hit Em Where It Counts" called shot be used with other injection vector weapons, such as, stingers, injection arrows, throwing syringes, etcYesRules Thread XII
WeaponDoes the bonus from seeker shafts (187 HT) stack with smart link? And should they be F Avail? it kind of odd for a high tech arrow to be military tech only.YesRules Thread XII
MatrixIf I'm in VR, can I "control device" my own Cyberlimbs?

Can this be combined with imagery (cameras, drone feeds, teammate image link feeds, etc) to control my arms to shoot people (imagery assisted shooting penalty -3 apply)?

Can this circumvent Sleepwaker/Sublime -10 to physical action penalties and similar effects, since I am NOT physical (though I'm using the matrix through a device to perform a physical action)?
The control device action can be used on cyberlimbs, including your own, to do simple things (walking, picking up objects, ect), but any action that would require a check is subject to the -10 penalty. You could combine it with shooting using imagery, but the -10 still applies on top of it.Rules Thread XII
CombatWhat called shot, if any, would be used to dismember someone with a bladed weapon?Probably Finishing move?

CSV?

Shits entirely Fiat but finishing move would be the closest.
Rules Thread XII
QualityDoes Magnesense (160 CF) function like electroception/Technosense, the SURGE power? As it doesn't list thresholds for detecting things.

And can it detect cyberware, as those are electronics/have power sources Second question also

Is there a way for technomancers to get Technosense without SURGEing? Seems like something they should be able to do
1) GM fiat unfortunately, treat as standard perception, GM sets the threshold you match it.

2) if they are metal they should show up.

3) Don't think so ask Chargen.
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationCan cybergills breathe air as well as water?Bioware gills can and it also mentions in Gills 113 CF

"gills are the bioware version of cybergills, operating in a similar way but lacking the ability to switch modes" Now Cybergills doesn't mention any modes but it does mention "allow water to be fully flushed out after emerging from submersion"

So assume that Cybergills have 2 modes, one for breathing air, the other for water.
Rules Thread XII
AugmentationWould Narco (CF 159) reduce the time Long Haul (CRB 412) knocks you out, and if it does, is it pre or post roll?"Any drug that deals damage when it wears off deals two less damage, and any negative effects that occur when a drug wears off are halved in duration." 159 CF

The Negative effects of Long haul is sleeping and potentially stun when taking two doses Narco helps with both of those effect.

Narco does not effect the Disorientation effect.
Rules Thread XII
CombatCan you combine called shot: bullseye burst (R&G 116) and Brain Blaster (R&G 119) when using the Hammerli Gemini (SL 31)?The gemini is capable of firing 3 times in one action as a complex and explicitly is allowed to do a brain blaster, so yes you can combine themRules Thread XII
CritterWhat the cost of buying a spider from HS 47p? And do you have costs for buying warforms?We do not have costs/avail for warforms and the price/avail for spiders has not been establishedRules Thread XII
QualityCan you stack vomeronasal organ and photographic memory for +2 memory tests for scents?Vomeronasal organ does not add to memory tests. Photographic memory applies to all tests including scent based memories.Rules Thread XII
DrugDoes the paralysis from Trance effect matrix actions? or does it only effect physical ones?"paralyzed and unable to take physical actions for 1 hour. Even if the target is not paralyzed, he suffers a –2 dice pool modifier for the next hour." It mentions Physical actions so the -2 dice pool for paralysis only effects physical actions.Rules Thread XII

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